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Author Topic:   Ray Comfort on The Atheist Experience
jar
Member
Posts: 33487
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 5 of 146 (610489)
03-30-2011 11:39 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by New Cat's Eye
03-30-2011 11:23 AM


Nope.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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jar
Member
Posts: 33487
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.0


(1)
Message 23 of 146 (864595)
10-13-2019 10:56 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by Phat
10-13-2019 10:42 AM


Re: Lets Discuss Modern Apologists Here
Phat writes:

What I like about Ray is that he comes across as honest and genuine, using his personality to spread his message. Intellectual? Not so much. Persuasive? Perhaps a bit. He seems honest.

Social Media Skills? I give him a 9 out of 10. He knows how to market.

Just like EVERY Carny Barker. "This way to the Egress folk!"


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Phat, posted 10-13-2019 10:42 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by Phat, posted 10-13-2019 11:15 AM jar has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33487
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 28 of 146 (864604)
10-13-2019 12:16 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by Phat
10-13-2019 11:15 AM


Re: Lets Discuss Modern Apologists Here
Famous story of the ultimate Barker, Ripley. As a young man he worked carnival Freak shows but the problem was the people stood around looking at the Freaks. So to move one group out and the next group in he used the fact that they were greedy and "No compendre. " He would call out "Now this way to the Egress" and the crowd not knowing what an egress was gladly walked out the exit so the next flock of rubes could pay and enter.

The Apologists are classic Carny Barkers.

Phat writes:

What I like about Ray is that he comes across as honest and genuine, using his personality to spread his message. Intellectual? Not so much. Persuasive? Perhaps a bit. He seems honest.

Social Media Skills? I give him a 9 out of 10. He knows how to market.

Just like EVERY Carny Barker. "This way to the Egress folk!"

To be successful the conman must come across as honest and genuine, using his personality to spread his message.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by Phat, posted 10-13-2019 11:15 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by Phat, posted 10-13-2019 3:35 PM jar has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33487
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 30 of 146 (864623)
10-13-2019 4:55 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by Phat
10-13-2019 3:35 PM


Re: Lets Discuss Modern Apologists Here
Phat writes:

But jar. All of them?

But what I actually say is so far I see no evidence that any apologist is not a sham and snake-oil salesman. I don't doubt that many might even believe the snake oil really has medicinal properties but they never seem to test their product to find out if it really is medicinal.

Bring an apologist who actually tests the product they sell against reality and maybe I will agree that that apologist is not a snake-oil salesman.

Bring me one that says "The God in Genesis 1 is not the same God as in Genesis 2&3 and the Serpent told the truth while God lied."


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

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 Message 29 by Phat, posted 10-13-2019 3:35 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by Phat, posted 10-13-2019 4:59 PM jar has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33487
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 32 of 146 (864626)
10-13-2019 5:18 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by Phat
10-13-2019 4:59 PM


Re: Lets Discuss Modern Apologists Here
Phat writes:

... and I don't agree with your defense because it does not support my case for a God and a Jesus who existed long before humans even evolved enough to imagine these sort of things.

Yet it is what is actually written in the Bible even if it does not support the God and Jesus you want to create. I do not support my position, rather what is actually written in the Bible supports my position.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

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Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by Phat, posted 10-14-2019 9:47 AM jar has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33487
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.0


(1)
Message 35 of 146 (864645)
10-14-2019 9:50 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by Phat
10-14-2019 9:47 AM


Re: Lets Discuss Modern Apologists Here
Phat writes:

And what does God say to you?

How can I know it is God talking to me?

Further, what does that have to do with what is actually written in the Bible?


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by Phat, posted 10-14-2019 9:47 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by Phat, posted 10-14-2019 10:11 AM jar has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33487
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 37 of 146 (864650)
10-14-2019 11:39 AM
Reply to: Message 36 by Phat
10-14-2019 10:11 AM


Re: Lets Discuss Modern Apologists Here
Phat writes:

Because you stubbornly cling to the title of being a Christian when the fact remains that you teach the Bible without giving it the credit that generations of Christian teachers have given it. You basically conclude that any teaching in the books shows us what *we* are charged to do and that God (and Jesus) are mere characters in the stories. Sorry, Charlie but this is a ********* representation of Christianity in general. Remind me to come and speak to your club.

No Phat, that is NOT what I say. I don't teach a Bible, I report what the Bible actually says.

The characters in the stories are, guess what? They are characters in stories.

Sorry Phat but thems the actual reality.

AbE:

Phat writes:

Now...alone in your room, do you ever kneel down and pray? Talk to God? Or do you consider this silly and unproductive?

I often pray, not any time, and I can even walk and pray at the same time. Talk to God? How would I know I was talking to God?

You keep harping on the same old stuff yet never ever explain how it is possible or how anyone could know that is what they were doing.

Edited by jar, : see AbE:


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

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Replies to this message:
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jar
Member
Posts: 33487
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 39 of 146 (864660)
10-14-2019 12:52 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by Phat
10-14-2019 12:32 PM


Re: Lets Discuss Modern Apologists Here
Phat writes:

Explain to me how one can pray and not be having a conversation/dialogue or even monologue with God?

Explain to me how I could know I was having a conversation/dialogue or even monologue with God?


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Phat, posted 10-14-2019 12:32 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by Phat, posted 10-14-2019 11:51 PM jar has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33487
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.0


(2)
Message 41 of 146 (864698)
10-15-2019 7:16 AM
Reply to: Message 40 by Phat
10-14-2019 11:51 PM


once again just misrepresentation
Phat writes:

So you are essentially claiming that throughout History, anyone and everyone who was perceived as being close to God, in reality, had no clue who they were talking to and if in fact, they were talking to anyone, right? In addition, anyone who thought they heard wisdom or insight through prayer was in fact delusional.

No Phat, I have asked at least once on this board "How can anyone know they are close to God or that they were talking to God.

And no one has ever offered an answer.

And I have said at least once on this board that it is the content that is significant rather than the source. If someone comes up with a wise thought then that is good regardless of whence came that wisdom.

Phat writes:

You are teaching people to essentially throw God away.

All of the Gods and gods humanity has ever created should be thrown away. Throw away the "Savior" and the "Father" and the "Servant". Stop waiting for God to make you win the lottery or fix Social Security or solve Global Warming or End War. GOD is not Jeeves.

Phat writes:

Maybe you and the rotary club can feed a few people, carry in groceries for older neighbors, and spread this secular teaching among the masses in your fight against Biblical Christianity and what you perceive as willful *********

Who else can carry in groceries?


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by Phat, posted 10-14-2019 11:51 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by Phat, posted 10-15-2019 3:27 PM jar has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33487
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 43 of 146 (864726)
10-15-2019 5:09 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by Phat
10-15-2019 3:27 PM


Re: Source vs Content
Phat writes:

How can one be a Christian and not know God? Isn't it obvious that it is a belief and not an objective proof?

Knowing and believing are not synonymous.

Phat writes:

In my mind, it would be more proper to label someone who believed that wisdom could come from many sources as a philosopher or spiritually minded person. A Christian by definition would believe that such wisdom came from GOD or at best arose from a conversation about the God defined through one of several Creeds...(we always referred to the Nicene Creed in our past arguments)

So a Christian can only gain wisdom through God, not through experience or evidence or environment or ...?

Phat writes:

Without the source, you don't have any light.

Not even at the level of word salad rather simple sloganizing. You have no light has abso0lutely no meaning Phat.

Phat writes:

My whole argument is that you confuse the issue by focusing only on content and defending the idea that the Source can never be validated. Who do you pray to? Yourself???

I think you have no idea of what prayer is.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

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 Message 42 by Phat, posted 10-15-2019 3:27 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by Phat, posted 10-16-2019 6:00 AM jar has responded
 Message 46 by Phat, posted 10-16-2019 6:26 AM jar has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33487
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.0


(2)
Message 47 of 146 (864752)
10-16-2019 8:20 AM
Reply to: Message 45 by Phat
10-16-2019 6:00 AM


Re: Source vs Content
Phat writes:

The whole point of Christianity is that He must increase and we must decrease.

Do you have any idea just how silly that statement is? Are you possibly under the impression that you can do something to increase God?

Phat writes:

You deify yourself by keeping your focus on what you can do.

Do you have any idea of how silly that statement is? Are you under the impression that I should expect the Holy Jeeves to make my breakfast?


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

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 Message 45 by Phat, posted 10-16-2019 6:00 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by Phat, posted 10-16-2019 1:49 PM jar has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33487
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 49 of 146 (864754)
10-16-2019 8:40 AM
Reply to: Message 46 by Phat
10-16-2019 6:26 AM


Re: Source vs Content
Phat writes:

This pamphlet supports my theory that your Christianity was formed through Sacred Studies and that you took your ideas from all religions.

So you are saying my beliefs were formed hrough knowledge instead of *********?

Phat writes:

It is why you scoff at the notion of "getting saved or enlightened through salvation and support the idea of enlightenment through education, as the Confucian philosophy supports.

No, I scoff at those ideas because they are simply silly.

No one can know they are saved while they are still alive. Judgement takes place after we die.

Selling salvation is easy and profitable and the guy pitching the spiel from the back of the Medicine Wagon won't be around if the customers find out the snake-oil didn't work. And he keeps the horse hitched just in case egress is the better choice.

But what is amazing is even after they get exposed as cons they still get embraced by their victims. "It's Fool Me Once"; "Oh wow, do it again!"


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

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 Message 46 by Phat, posted 10-16-2019 6:26 AM Phat has responded

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jar
Member
Posts: 33487
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 51 of 146 (864771)
10-16-2019 1:24 PM


Phat writes:

There is no reason to dismiss the basic teaching unless you have a personal repugnance to it, as you seem to have.

I'm sorry Phat but there is one major reason to dismiss the marketing of salvation and that is the simple fact that it is impossible for any of the people marketing salvation to even know if there is even ANYTHING in the bottle they are selling.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member
Posts: 33487
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 57 of 146 (864783)
10-16-2019 3:24 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by Phat
10-16-2019 1:49 PM


Re: Source vs Content
Phat writes:

What I mean is that the less junk I have in my soul, the more room there is in me for the Holy Spirit to magnify Himself.

And so another platitude with no meaning.

Phat writes:

No, but I would expect you to be wise enough to realize that you cant do everything yourself.

And I have never said that I can do everything myself so again, your rep0ly is simply another irrelevant platitude.

Phat writes:

You may believe that there is no way that you can know if you are even talking to God and if He is listening, but would you not agree that he is fully capable of doing so and that if you are honestly seeking communion with Him that He wouldn't let a devil or a bad burrito fool you and sabotage His plan for communion?

I don't know Phat. Again, how would I or anyone know that?

Phat writes:

You told me that I likely had no idea what prayer actually is.

I doubt it would help but a good place to start would be a to take time to contemplate what you really can do and then to do it.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by Phat, posted 10-16-2019 1:49 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by Phat, posted 10-17-2019 2:33 AM jar has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33487
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 59 of 146 (864816)
10-17-2019 9:40 AM
Reply to: Message 58 by Phat
10-17-2019 2:33 AM


Re: Source vs Content
Phat writes:

To whom is your prayer addressed to again?

Why would it matter? What is important is the content and results.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by Phat, posted 10-17-2019 2:33 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by Phat, posted 10-17-2019 10:04 AM jar has responded

  
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