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Author Topic:   Ray Comfort on The Atheist Experience
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6799
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 136 of 146 (865314)
10-23-2019 7:43 AM
Reply to: Message 133 by Thugpreacha
10-22-2019 11:58 PM


Re: The Church History In Context
and the Richard Carrier loving Theodoric

Why the snide personal comments and attacks? Because you have no real argument? This is the behavior that I think should disqualify you as a moderator. We see this behavior a lot from you.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
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jar
Member
Posts: 31611
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 137 of 146 (865318)
10-23-2019 10:27 AM
Reply to: Message 130 by Thugpreacha
10-22-2019 11:41 PM


Re: Protestant Mass is not Catholic Mass, get it straight
Phat writes:

As for the Roman Catholics, however...the main way they got off track is by not disciplining their people in the power of the Holy Spirit and Living presence of Christ.

Absolute nonsense and word salad.

What does that even mean Phat?


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
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jar
Member
Posts: 31611
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 138 of 146 (865320)
10-23-2019 10:33 AM
Reply to: Message 135 by Theodoric
10-23-2019 7:39 AM


Re: The Church History In Context
To Roman Catholicism. It was a purely political split and had almost nothing to do with theology. It was simply about who got to make political decisions.

There were quite a few other extent Christian movements like the Eastern Orthodoxy and Ethiopian Orthodoxy and Greek Orthodoxy which were also all catholic but not acknowledging that absolute power of the Roman Catholic Popes. Protestantism was a break only from the direct rule and authority of the Roman Catholic hierarchy.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 135 by Theodoric, posted 10-23-2019 7:39 AM Theodoric has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 139 by Theodoric, posted 10-23-2019 11:33 AM jar has responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6799
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 139 of 146 (865323)
10-23-2019 11:33 AM
Reply to: Message 138 by jar
10-23-2019 10:33 AM


Re: The Church History In Context
Exactly. Phat and Faith seem to want to push the idea that Protestantism is some sort of pure pre-RCC manifestation. Protestantism exists because of the RCC. It started out as a political break and doctrinal arguments were used to justify it.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 138 by jar, posted 10-23-2019 10:33 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 140 by jar, posted 10-23-2019 11:54 AM Theodoric has not yet responded
 Message 141 by Faith, posted 10-23-2019 1:02 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31611
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 140 of 146 (865324)
10-23-2019 11:54 AM
Reply to: Message 139 by Theodoric
10-23-2019 11:33 AM


Re: The Church History In Context
Interestingly, all the points in Luther's 95 Thesis were agreed upon and implemented shortly after promulgated. But the biggest issue was the conflict between two calendars, the calendar of childbirth and the calendar of communications in the day. Henry needed an heir and that meant out with the old and in with the new and not just fertile but pregnant. Henry simply could not wait for the political and diplomatic process to carry through and so needed a divorce... a divorce right now.

Luther's 95 Thesis was the real reformation and was carried through but at the political pace of the day.

Protestantism though was a coup; the overthrow of the political authority of the Roman Catholic Pope in Western Civilization.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

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Faith
Member
Posts: 33651
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 141 of 146 (865325)
10-23-2019 1:02 PM
Reply to: Message 139 by Theodoric
10-23-2019 11:33 AM


Re: The Church History In Context
It started out as a political break and doctrinal arguments were used to justify it.

This is false, completely backwards. Luther had no intention of breaking from the RCC at all. He put up his 95 theses as a traditional challenge to debate, and that's all he expected: a debate on those issues which he considered to be corruptions in the Church. He was sure the Pope would agree with him and that measures would be taken to end the corruption.

Instead the Pope took offense at Luther's arguments and excommunicated him. This is what provoked Luther to recognize the nature of the papacy as the Antichrist. Political actions started later as the peasants revolted against the political power of the Church, and Luther did NOT approve of that action..


This message is a reply to:
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Faith
Member
Posts: 33651
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 142 of 146 (865326)
10-23-2019 1:17 PM
Reply to: Message 135 by Theodoric
10-23-2019 7:39 AM


Re: The Church History In Context
Protestantism all came from Catholicism. That is a fact

Don't overdo it. Yes the original Reformers were all Catholics, of course, but the Reformation was an opposition to Catholicism and most of its work was in undoing Catholic errors of all kinds as they discovered them. Catholicism had distorted the teachings of the original apostolic Church and usurped power over all Christians, adding in pagan religious doctrine down the centuries to absolutely corrupt the original Christian doctrine. I listed its pagan accretions in a post above somewhere but I can list them again if necessary.

All that is what the Reformation undid, and it most particularly undid the RCC's teaching on salvation by works, restoring the original biblical teaching on salvation by faith in Christ alone, after which it tells us we were saved UNTO good works, not saved by them.

Yes, there was some holding over of some Catholici practices that should have been expunged but weren't, but most of it was superficial trappings. Although it is pretty disturbing to see that Dagon-inspired fishhead "bishop's mitre" on the head of Anglican priests. Actually the very title of "priest" is a Catholicism that should never exist in the Christian church as a special function because the Bible says all believers are priests: "ye are a holy priesthood."


This message is a reply to:
 Message 135 by Theodoric, posted 10-23-2019 7:39 AM Theodoric has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 145 by Theodoric, posted 10-23-2019 3:55 PM Faith has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17519
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 143 of 146 (865336)
10-23-2019 3:14 PM
Reply to: Message 128 by Thugpreacha
10-22-2019 11:02 PM


Re: The Church History In Context
Phat writes:

Note that this early gathering very much was cohesive and united through belief as well as actions.


But what does it mean to believe?

Phat writes:

But I wholeheartedly disagree with you that a bunch of secular humanists could simply feed people and give them spare change and in any way represent the early believers in a continuum.


That's an opinion not based on fact. There are societies all over the world that manage to feed their hungry as well as we do without one single, solitary "anointed Christian" - so clearly anointed Christians are not a factor.

This message is a reply to:
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ringo
Member
Posts: 17519
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


(2)
Message 144 of 146 (865337)
10-23-2019 3:21 PM
Reply to: Message 132 by Thugpreacha
10-22-2019 11:50 PM


Re: The Church History In Context
Phat writes:

My initial point is that Protestantism didn't come specifically from the RCC since the RCC itself was not the original church.


original church --> Roman Catholic Church --> Protestantism

So yes, Protestantism came from the Roman Catholic Church. The original church is not relevant.

Phat writes:

Protestantism came from reading the Book Of Acts and the Bible specifically.


They were called "Protestants" because they were protesting against the Roman Catholic Church. They claimed to be going back to their "original" roots but that claim is questionable.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 132 by Thugpreacha, posted 10-22-2019 11:50 PM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6799
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 145 of 146 (865341)
10-23-2019 3:55 PM
Reply to: Message 142 by Faith
10-23-2019 1:17 PM


Re: The Church History In Context
You are putting up a strawman. The facts are all Protestant churches derived form Catholicism. They were not created from a vacuum.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 142 by Faith, posted 10-23-2019 1:17 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 146 by Faith, posted 10-23-2019 9:18 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 33651
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 146 of 146 (865357)
10-23-2019 9:18 PM
Reply to: Message 145 by Theodoric
10-23-2019 3:55 PM


Re: The Church History In Context
You are putting up a strawman. The facts are all Protestant churches derived form Catholicism. They were not created from a vacuum.

That is based on RCC false doctrine. They do not represent the earliest church though they claim to. The papacy didn't exist until 606 AD when the Bishop of Rome was made Universal Bishop against the very spirit of Christianity, and eventually became a world power that dominated all Christians.

It is a purely historical fact that Protestantism developed out of Catholicism simply because the Reformers were Catholics. But as to substance and doctrine the Reformation recovered the truths of the biblical Church and left Catholicism behind.

The RCC should not even exist any more, but they are still maneuvering to tryh to regain the worldly power they lost because of the Reformation. Protestants have lost any historical sense and actually treat the RCC as just another denomination when in reality it is the soul of antichristianity. Pontifex Maximus indeed. Do you know that was the title of the head of the Roman pagan religions? "Co-Redemptrix" indeed. Marian apparitions? Demonic seductions to the false Church that has blasphemously made "Mary" the equal of Christ.

Scripture says to those in the false Church who are true followers of Christ nevertheless: "Come out of her My people, lest you partake of her plagues."

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
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