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Author | Topic: Ray Comfort on The Atheist Experience | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18338 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
jar writes: Or what? Mencius?
So a Christian can only gain wisdom through God, not through experience or evidence or environment or ...? You claim to belong to some Socratic Club of critical thinking and secular wisdom.(and call it Christianity) But without the Holy Spirit, you are nothing more than a philosopher. Lets compare your boy Mencius with traditional Christianity:
quote:This pamphlet supports my theory that your Christianity was formed through Sacred Studies and that you took your ideas from all religions. It is why you scoff at the notion of "getting saved or enlightened through salvation and support the idea of enlightenment through education, as the Confucian philosophy supports. Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith
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jar Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
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Phat writes: The whole point of Christianity is that He must increase and we must decrease. Do you have any idea just how silly that statement is? Are you possibly under the impression that you can do something to increase God?
Phat writes: You deify yourself by keeping your focus on what you can do. Do you have any idea of how silly that statement is? Are you under the impression that I should expect the Holy Jeeves to make my breakfast?
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9197 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.2 |
Your god sounds like a right, real asshole. Needy, insecure narcissist(remind you of anyone?)
The thing that drives me crazy about fundies is that they claim all this super supernatural crap for their god. Omniscience, omnipresence, and omnipotence and then they shrink it down as this spiteful, vengeful toddler.That you think you could understand or conceive of something so powerful is laughable. To explain all these inconsistencies, all of you just string impressive sounding words together. Laughable.Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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jar Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: This pamphlet supports my theory that your Christianity was formed through Sacred Studies and that you took your ideas from all religions. So you are saying my beliefs were formed hrough knowledge instead of ignorance?
Phat writes: It is why you scoff at the notion of "getting saved or enlightened through salvation and support the idea of enlightenment through education, as the Confucian philosophy supports. No, I scoff at those ideas because they are simply silly. No one can know they are saved while they are still alive. Judgement takes place after we die. Selling salvation is easy and profitable and the guy pitching the spiel from the back of the Medicine Wagon won't be around if the customers find out the snake-oil didn't work. And he keeps the horse hitched just in case egress is the better choice. But what is amazing is even after they get exposed as cons they still get embraced by their victims. "It's Fool Me Once"; "Oh wow, do it again!"
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Phat Member Posts: 18338 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
jar writes: No one can know they are talking with God, either. One can believe that God is quite capable of communion. One can believe that God cares about them. You will ask why God should care about me any more than pond scum...and I will reply that I have no idea, but that I believe that God cares about humans. One does not have to be a traveling conman in order to espouse the idea that God loves us and wants communion with us. No one can know they are saved while they are still alive. You may ask how do I know if its God talking or a bad burrito. I will say that I dont know in the strict definition of the term, but that I would expect a Deity to be fully capable of doing so. You believe that all of this belief about salvation and having a personal relationship with the Creator of the universe is a giant swindle. I dont know where you became so skeptical, apart from watching people such as Swaggert, Robinson, Falwell, and the modern counterparts swindle the masses. Yet all that you have established is that there are many conmen in Christianity. There is no reason to dismiss the basic teaching unless you have a personal repugnance to it, as you seem to have. Its how you were taught, I suppose. Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith
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jar Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: There is no reason to dismiss the basic teaching unless you have a personal repugnance to it, as you seem to have. I'm sorry Phat but there is one major reason to dismiss the marketing of salvation and that is the simple fact that it is impossible for any of the people marketing salvation to even know if there is even ANYTHING in the bottle they are selling.
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Phat Member Posts: 18338 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
jar writes: Not at all. God is already infinite so there is no possible way that He can increase in size or power. What I mean is that the less junk I have in my soul, the more room there is in me for the Holy Spirit to magnify Himself. Are you possibly under the impression that you can do something to increase God? And to teach and humble me.
Are you under the impression that I should expect the Holy Jeeves to make my breakfast? No, but I would expect you to be wise enough to realize that you cant do everything yourself. You told me that I likely had no idea what prayer actually is. Perhaps you can share your theory. You may believe that there is no way that you can know if you are even talking to God and if He is listening, but would you not agree that he is fully capable of doing so and that if you are honestly seeking communion with Him that He wouldn't let a devil or a bad burrito fool you and sabotage His plan for communion?Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith
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Phat Member Posts: 18338 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
I'm sorry Phat but there is one major reason to dismiss the marketing of salvation and that is the simple fact that it is impossible for any of the people marketing salvation to even know if there is even ANYTHING in the bottle they are selling. Do any Pastors, Priests, or teachers ever actually know that the God of whom they speak is actually real? Does this stop them? Is not the intention and motive important? Billy Graham believed every word that he ever spoke publically. He impacted a lot of people. Honesty is important. You tell us to throw God away. Do you honestly 100% believe that this is good advice...for anyone and everyone? If so, explain why. I think you may say something along the lines of "there is no way anyone can ever know that they know God and the evidence shows God is not feeding, clothing, or comforting anyone...therefore we must focus on what WE do and throw the necessity of a skydaddy away. But let me ask you this: Do you know that humans cant commune with God? Do you know that God can't or won't speak to our conscience through prayer, meditation, and in the context of thoughtful actions(such as feeding people)? Why would you risk alienating yourself from the creator simply because you have no evidence of a communion?Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith
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Phat Member Posts: 18338 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
I am curious as to why you decided that Christian belief was not worth your time. Was it the evidence that Christians themselves were nutjobs best avoided? Was it the hypocrisy of certain believers? Or was it evidence by your friend Richard Carrier and others, such as Dawkins? One more thing about Carrier. You had a lot of spite for Ravi Zacharias disclosing that a woman tried to sue him and bribe him with explicit pictures. Yet look at the behavior of Carrier! Coming Out Poly:+ A change of life venue
You likely would defend Carrier because he never claimed to be more than he actually was, whereas Zacharias was exposed through his human shortcomings...but I see no difference. They are both fallible humans. And I don't see you as a hard atheist either. You allow that GOD might exist, in my opinion...simply by what you say.
Theodoric writes: Does that mean that something or someone so powerful is a possibility? Does that not also mean that something so powerful would have to be the one to initiate communication with humans since humans are incapable of it being the other way around? That you think you could understand or conceive of something so powerful is laughable.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9197 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.2 |
I am curious as to why you decided that Christian belief was not worth your time.
I was raised nominally Catholic, but have never had an actual belief in the supernatural. As a child I may have but as I grew older I left behind childish beliefs. I never decided christian beleif was not worth my time.(Why do you always throw out strawman arguments? Is it because you have no actual arguments?
Or was it evidence by your friend Richard Carrier and others, such as Dawkins?
I don't know them at all. Another strawman?
You had a lot of spite for Ravi Zacharias disclosing that a woman tried to sue him and bribe him with explicit pictures.
Strawman alert. I have no spite for him. He is a charlatan and a serial liar. This is proven.
Yet look at the behavior of Carrier!And I don't see you as a hard atheist either. You allow that GOD might exist, in my opinion...simply by what you say.
Whatever. There is no evidence for a god and their is no evidence for the jesus of your bible. If there is a god being, it is beyond our ken to even conceive. So no I have no belief there is a god, of any sort. There is no such thing as supernatural. If there were there would be some sort of evidence.
Does that mean that something or someone so powerful is a possibility?
Irrelevant.
Does that not also mean that something so powerful would have to be the one to initiate communication with humans since humans are incapable of it being the other way around?
Evidently you have trouble understanding unable to conceive of something. Maybe next time drop all the strawman arguments.Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Thugpreacher writes:
If somebody claims that all dogs are brown, the onus is on you to present one that isn't.
I dont know where you became so skeptical, apart from watching people such as Swaggert, Robinson, Falwell, and the modern counterparts swindle the masses. Yet all that you have established is that there are many conmen in Christianity.
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jar Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: What I mean is that the less junk I have in my soul, the more room there is in me for the Holy Spirit to magnify Himself. And so another platitude with no meaning.
Phat writes: No, but I would expect you to be wise enough to realize that you cant do everything yourself. And I have never said that I can do everything myself so again, your rep0ly is simply another irrelevant platitude.
Phat writes: You may believe that there is no way that you can know if you are even talking to God and if He is listening, but would you not agree that he is fully capable of doing so and that if you are honestly seeking communion with Him that He wouldn't let a devil or a bad burrito fool you and sabotage His plan for communion? I don't know Phat. Again, how would I or anyone know that?
Phat writes: You told me that I likely had no idea what prayer actually is. I doubt it would help but a good place to start would be a to take time to contemplate what you really can do and then to do it.
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Phat Member Posts: 18338 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Phat writes: You told me that I likely had no idea what prayer actually is. jar writes: To whom is your prayer addressed to again? Seems as if you are praying to yourself for yourself to become stronger and wiser. I doubt it would help but a good place to start would be to take time to contemplate what you really can do and then to do it.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith
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jar Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: To whom is your prayer addressed to again? Why would it matter? What is important is the content and results.
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Phat Member Posts: 18338 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
You are dodging the question. To you as a Christian believe that it is only provable that *you* and you alone are hearing your prayer? Im not asking you what you *know*. I am asking you what you believe. You will likely claim that Christianity is about what one does. You may say Communion? Fuggedaboudit. Go and do, my sons. Evidently, your prayers are more like meditations. Some of your Christianity has an odd eastern component to it. Which again supports my theory that your beliefs were formed through the inclusive study of all religions rather than Jesus as the way, the truth, and the life(light)
Truth is not inclusive. Otherwise, He never would have had to pray to His Father that we all be One as {We} are One. It would have been a done deal from the dawn of time.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith
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