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Author Topic:   Ray Comfort on The Atheist Experience
PaulK
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Posts: 15552
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Member Rating: 3.0


(1)
Message 91 of 146 (865129)
10-21-2019 6:58 AM
Reply to: Message 90 by Faith
10-21-2019 6:50 AM


Re: Source vs Content
I’ve observed Protestant communion and Catholic mass. There’s no significant difference between them.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by Faith, posted 10-21-2019 6:50 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 92 by Faith, posted 10-21-2019 7:18 AM PaulK has responded

  
Faith
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Posts: 33651
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 92 of 146 (865131)
10-21-2019 7:18 AM
Reply to: Message 91 by PaulK
10-21-2019 6:58 AM


Re: Source vs Content
Then you are ignorant of a huge historical controversy.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by PaulK, posted 10-21-2019 6:58 AM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 93 by PaulK, posted 10-21-2019 7:22 AM Faith has responded

  
PaulK
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Posts: 15552
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.0


(1)
Message 93 of 146 (865132)
10-21-2019 7:22 AM
Reply to: Message 92 by Faith
10-21-2019 7:18 AM


Re: Source vs Content
That’s an obvious example of moving the goalposts. If mass and communion are so different why isn’t there an observable difference?

Does it really come down to the doctrine of Transubstantiation? Because that’s just a belief derived from taking the Bible too literally.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by Faith, posted 10-21-2019 7:18 AM Faith has responded

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 Message 95 by Faith, posted 10-21-2019 8:07 AM PaulK has responded

  
Tangle
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Posts: 7123
From: UK
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Member Rating: 4.0


Message 94 of 146 (865135)
10-21-2019 7:54 AM
Reply to: Message 90 by Faith
10-21-2019 6:50 AM


Re: Source vs Content
Faith writes:

Mass is a service in which Christ is sacrificed over and over,

Exactly my point. It's an obscenity; a glorification of torture.

I don't know why there is any confusion about this at all because it's historically the case that Mass is a Catholic practice rejected by Protestants. Communion in the Protestant churches is not Mass.

There's no confusion, you're just flat out, in your face wrong. Again. Mass is celebrated in Protestant and Anglican and Catholic etc etc churches all over the globe.

Maybe with the exception of your loony tunes church.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


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Faith
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From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
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Message 95 of 146 (865137)
10-21-2019 8:07 AM
Reply to: Message 93 by PaulK
10-21-2019 7:22 AM


Re: Source vs Content
I hadn't equated it with transubstantiation, I thought there was more of a ritual involved, but yes I suppose it is the same issue. That being the case, historically Protestants were willing to die rather than accept that Catholic definition, so it's not a trivial thing and you certainly can't say Protestants also practice Mass. there is no sacrificing of Christ over and over in Protestant churches, that is what is considered to be blasphemous, plus the definition of the communion elements as actual flesh and blood.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


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 Message 93 by PaulK, posted 10-21-2019 7:22 AM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
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 Message 97 by ringo, posted 10-21-2019 11:53 AM Faith has responded

  
PaulK
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Posts: 15552
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 96 of 146 (865138)
10-21-2019 8:18 AM
Reply to: Message 95 by Faith
10-21-2019 8:07 AM


Re: Source vs Content
quote:
I hadn't equated it with transubstantiation, I thought there was more of a ritual involved, but yes I suppose it is the same issue.

It might be a bit more ritualistic but it is a ritual, whether you call it communion or mass.

quote:
That being the case, historically Protestants were willing to die rather than accept that Catholic definition, so it's not a trivial thing and you certainly can't say Protestants also practice Mass.

People are willing to die over trivial things. And it seems that you aren’t aware of any significant differences....

quote:
.... there is no sacrificing of Christ over and over in Protestant churches, that is what is considered to be blasphemous,

What exactly are you talking about? If you mean the symbolic eating of the bread and drinking the wine Protestants do so it.

quote:
... plus the definition of the communion elements as actual flesh and blood.

That IS Transubstantiation. It’s also just a silly Catholic belief. Hardly something that justifies your claims.


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ringo
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Posts: 17519
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 97 of 146 (865155)
10-21-2019 11:53 AM
Reply to: Message 95 by Faith
10-21-2019 8:07 AM


Re: Source vs Content
Faith writes:

... you certainly can't say Protestants also practice Mass.


Wikipedia can and does:
quote:
Mass is the main eucharistic liturgical service in many forms of Western Christianity. The term Mass is commonly used in the Roman Catholic[1] and Anglican churches,[2] as well as in some Lutheran,[3] Methodist,[4][5] Western Rite Orthodox, and Old Catholic churches.

Other Christian denominations may employ terms such as Divine Service or worship service (and often just "service"), rather than the word Mass.[6] link



This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by Faith, posted 10-21-2019 8:07 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
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Faith
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Posts: 33651
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 98 of 146 (865165)
10-21-2019 4:12 PM
Reply to: Message 97 by ringo
10-21-2019 11:53 AM


Re: Source vs Content
Yeah, all Catholic offshoots, not Protestant. And not all of those denominations have anything they call "Mass." Every church I've ever been in calls Mass a heresy or blasphemy.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by ringo, posted 10-21-2019 11:53 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 99 by Tangle, posted 10-21-2019 4:14 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 101 by jar, posted 10-21-2019 4:51 PM Faith has responded
 Message 124 by ringo, posted 10-22-2019 11:44 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
Tangle
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Posts: 7123
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 99 of 146 (865166)
10-21-2019 4:14 PM
Reply to: Message 98 by Faith
10-21-2019 4:12 PM


Re: Source vs Content
Utter rubbish. Just blatantly wrong.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by Faith, posted 10-21-2019 4:12 PM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 100 by Thugpreacha, posted 10-21-2019 4:36 PM Tangle has not yet responded

  
Thugpreacha
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Posts: 13154
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 100 of 146 (865173)
10-21-2019 4:36 PM
Reply to: Message 99 by Tangle
10-21-2019 4:14 PM


Re: Source vs Content
Maybe she is right...in her own world. After all, you claim that believers make it all up. How could we judge what any particular church makes up? The RCC, in my opinion, has no greater claim to legitimacy than any other church around.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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jar
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Posts: 31611
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 101 of 146 (865175)
10-21-2019 4:51 PM
Reply to: Message 98 by Faith
10-21-2019 4:12 PM


Re: Source vs Content
Faith writes:

Yeah, all Catholic offshoots, not Protestant.

Sorry Faith but once again as usual reality says you are wrong. The Anglican Communion and Lutherans and Methodists and the others are most definitely Protestants despite what your cult might believe.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by Faith, posted 10-21-2019 4:12 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 102 by Thugpreacha, posted 10-21-2019 4:54 PM jar has responded
 Message 104 by Faith, posted 10-21-2019 4:57 PM jar has responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 13154
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 102 of 146 (865178)
10-21-2019 4:54 PM
Reply to: Message 101 by jar
10-21-2019 4:51 PM


Re: Source vs Content
The Jack Chick School Of Orthodoxy has their own definition of Catholic Bias.

Can ten million comic books be wrong?


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by jar, posted 10-21-2019 4:51 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 103 by jar, posted 10-21-2019 4:55 PM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31611
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 103 of 146 (865179)
10-21-2019 4:55 PM
Reply to: Message 102 by Thugpreacha
10-21-2019 4:54 PM


Re: Source vs Content
Yes, of course.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by Thugpreacha, posted 10-21-2019 4:54 PM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 33651
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 104 of 146 (865180)
10-21-2019 4:57 PM
Reply to: Message 101 by jar
10-21-2019 4:51 PM


Re: Source vs Content
It was the Reformers themselves that rejected the Mass, not any particular denomination.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by jar, posted 10-21-2019 4:51 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 105 by PaulK, posted 10-21-2019 5:01 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 107 by jar, posted 10-21-2019 5:13 PM Faith has responded

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 15552
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.0


(2)
Message 105 of 146 (865182)
10-21-2019 5:01 PM
Reply to: Message 104 by Faith
10-21-2019 4:57 PM


Re: Source vs Content
Since you’ve just labelled the Lutheran’s a “Catholic offshoot” and “not Protestant” may we take it that you no longer consider Luther one of the Reformers ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by Faith, posted 10-21-2019 4:57 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
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