Intelligent Design explains many follies

Ink, you mentioned that you are a biologist.What is your area of study?

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Show me one intricately complex man made thing that exists without man first designing and then constructing his design.

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The same truth principle applies to the intricately complex universe, and even to man himself.

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Was this structure designed or was it produced by random forces of weather?:

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Show me one intricately complex man made thing that exists without man first designing and then constructing his design.

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I did that.I showed you a naturally-occurring, randomly-produced stone arch.

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The same truth principle applies to the intricately complex universe, and even to man himself.

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Well, I just showed you a natural stone arch which was not designed by an intelligence; it was produced by random weathering.This is something that qualifies as "intricately complex", right?But, instead of conceding this to be the case, you move the goalposts;

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OK, show me one intricately complex "man made thing", not a pic of some nature scene, that exists without man first designing and then constructing his design.

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hy does it matter if it's man-made or not?Didn't you just say, "The same truth principle applies to the intricately complex universe"?

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The best biological organisms can do is adapt and mutate. If that's your idea of how biological organisms have designed themselves, that's your choice to believe. But it's a very bad choice and is not true science at all.

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Well, let me ask you a question, then.What is your understanding of the role of DNA in reproduction of organisms?

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What is my understanding of the role of DNA in reproduction of organisms? I believe all the design details of whatever creature will be reproduced when male and female join together is inherent in the joint male sperm DNA and female egg DNA. I believe the design in each DNA tells every reproducing cell what kind of cell it is and where it fits into the creature that is being reproduced.

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OK, that's fine.I have another question.Does DNA copy itself perfectly all the time?

Does DNA copy itself perfectly all the time?

One of the reasons I missed your answer was because you didn't reply to my post, but no matter. Thanks for pointing me to your response:

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(4) No, DNA does not copy itself perfectly all the time. That's why there are imperfections as organisms reproduce.

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Correction.One of the reasons organisms are different than their parents (not "imperfect") is due to imperfect replication of DNA during reproduction.

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To rest one's case on adaptation and imperfections as the reasons how organisms evolve is pure folly.

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I do not understand what you mean when you use the word "imperfection" in this context.It is not a scientific term, so could you please define it for me?

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The science classroom should be reserved only for those things that can be observed and completely proven.

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Nobody has ever observed an electron.They have only been inferred from indirect evidence.Do you suggest that we should avoid taching children about electrons in science class?

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Imperfections are simply mutations.

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Oh, ok.Why didn't you just say that in the first place?Using loaded terminology such as you were doing is not helpful, as the judgement of if something is "perfect" or not is entirely subjective, wouldn't you agree?For example, a mutation that confers a benefit to reproductive success could be said to be more "perfect" than a gene which is neutral with regards to reproductive success, wouldn't you say?

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Mutations rarely result in the betterment of the creature,

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But they sometimes do, right?

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let alone give a plausible explanation of how creatures can evolve from one creature to another to another to .........

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More creatures are born than survive to reproduce.All creatures have mutations which make them slightly different from each other in various ways.All organisms live in a particular environment.The individuals in a population which, due to mutation among other factors, tend to reproduce more numerous offspring get to pass on those genes to future generations more than those individuals who are not as successful at reproducing.

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No, I do not!

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But didn't you say that we shouldn't teach things in science class that are not directly observed?Electrons have never been directly observed, so if we follow your advice, we shouldn't teach about electrons in science class.

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Yes, evolution should not be taught in the science classroom because it can never be completely proven, as can other elements of scientific study such as nuclear physics, the laws of thermodynamics, electrical engineering, how creatures function and reproduce, how plants function and reproduce, etc.

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Actually, nothing in science can ever be completely proven.Do you think we should teach about genetics in science class? What about population genetics?This message has been edited by schrafinator, 03-22-2006 01:05 PM