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Author
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Topic: Higg's Boson?
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Larni
Member Posts: 4000 From: Liverpool Joined: 09-16-2005
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Message 31 of 49 (630144)
08-22-2011 6:00 PM
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Reply to: Message 26 by cavediver
08-22-2011 5:20 PM
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Re: Does it exist?
Well, if you have to ask...  Wasn't a question, it was a statement
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 26 by cavediver, posted 08-22-2011 5:20 PM | | cavediver has not replied |
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cavediver
Member (Idle past 3671 days) Posts: 4129 From: UK Joined: 06-16-2005
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Message 32 of 49 (630147)
08-22-2011 6:09 PM
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Reply to: Message 29 by jar
08-22-2011 5:30 PM
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Re: Does it exist?
Well, if the Higgs Boson is shown to not exist then suddenly everything will become mass-less. Yep, belief is more important than your realise  And for some reason that reminds me of the four fundemental forces (according to Terry Pratchett) - charm, persuasion, uncertainty and bloody-mindedness 
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 29 by jar, posted 08-22-2011 5:30 PM | | jar has seen this message but not replied |
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PaulK
Member Posts: 17827 Joined: 01-10-2003 Member Rating: 2.3
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Message 33 of 49 (630149)
08-22-2011 6:36 PM
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Reply to: Message 30 by Larni
08-22-2011 5:56 PM
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Re: Does it exist?
quote:
So, if they don't find the Higgs Boson they need to go back and check their assumptions?
Yes, they'll have to rework the model to fit the results.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 30 by Larni, posted 08-22-2011 5:56 PM | | Larni has not replied |
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NoNukes
Inactive Member
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Message 34 of 49 (630217)
08-23-2011 3:35 AM
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Still Looking...
Higgs signal sinks from view Early hints of the boson grow weaker with fresh data. Higgs signal sinks from view | Nature
quote:
The Higgs boson, the most sought-after particle in all of physics, is proving tougher to find than physicists had hoped. Last month, a flurry of 'excess events' hinted that the Higgs could be popping up inside the Large Hadron Collider (LHC), the world's most powerful particle accelerator located at CERN, Europe's high-energy physics lab near Geneva, Switzerland. But new data presented today at the Lepton Photon conference in Mumbai, India, show the signal fading. It means that "this excess is probably just a statistical fluctuation", says Adam Falkowski, a theorist at the University of Paris-South in Orsay, France.
Chuck77, I've got on my fireproof boxers. Go ahead and flame away.
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 35 by GDR, posted 12-12-2011 11:07 AM | | NoNukes has seen this message but not replied |
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GDR
Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: 05-22-2005 Member Rating: 2.1
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Message 35 of 49 (643840)
12-12-2011 11:07 AM
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Reply to: Message 34 by NoNukes
08-23-2011 3:35 AM
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CERN progress report Tuesday
It looks like CERN will issue a report on Tuesday.
N Y Times article
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 34 by NoNukes, posted 08-23-2011 3:35 AM | | NoNukes has seen this message but not replied |
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GDR
Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: 05-22-2005 Member Rating: 2.1
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Message 36 of 49 (643953)
12-13-2011 10:50 AM
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CERN Report
Here is that report from CERN.
From the N Y Times
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cavediver
Member (Idle past 3671 days) Posts: 4129 From: UK Joined: 06-16-2005
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Message 37 of 49 (643979)
12-13-2011 5:46 PM
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Reply to: Message 36 by GDR
12-13-2011 10:50 AM
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Re: CERN Report
Promising. I must admit that I have given up on pretending to be pleased if we don't find it We need to find it just to feel good about ourselves, and to justify the next accelerator...
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 36 by GDR, posted 12-13-2011 10:50 AM | | GDR has replied |
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GDR
Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: 05-22-2005 Member Rating: 2.1
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Message 38 of 49 (643980)
12-13-2011 6:02 PM
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Reply to: Message 37 by cavediver
12-13-2011 5:46 PM
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Re: CERN Report
Maybe not finding it will mean will justify the need for a more powerful accelerator. However, I certainly would want you to feel good about yourself....  In our societies where we want instant results science seems so ponderously slow. However I am hopeful to see the results of some of this prior to shuffling off to whatever comes next. For those of you in the trade the wait must be agonizing.
Everybody is entitled to my opinion.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 37 by cavediver, posted 12-13-2011 5:46 PM | | cavediver has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 40 by Panda, posted 12-13-2011 6:23 PM | | GDR has not replied |
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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 829 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: 08-12-2009
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Message 39 of 49 (643983)
12-13-2011 6:22 PM
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Reply to: Message 37 by cavediver
12-13-2011 5:46 PM
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Re: CERN Report
and to justify the next accelerator... Granted, the Higgs was the Bread and Butter for CERN, hasn't it already proved invaluable in other areas? What I mean is: will it be seen (within the particle physics community, anyways) as a failure if the Higgs is not found? Hasn't it already advanced our knowledge of physics at that scale?
"Why don't you call upon your God to strike me? Oh, I forgot it's because he's fake like Thor, so bite me" -Greydon Square
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 37 by cavediver, posted 12-13-2011 5:46 PM | | cavediver has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 41 by Chuck77, posted 12-13-2011 7:29 PM | | hooah212002 has replied |
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Panda
Member (Idle past 3741 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: 10-04-2010
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Message 40 of 49 (643984)
12-13-2011 6:23 PM
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Reply to: Message 38 by GDR
12-13-2011 6:02 PM
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Re: CERN Report
GDR writes: In our societies where we want instant results science seems so ponderously slow. Yeah! Where's my frikkin' rocket boots?! I was promised them 30 years ago by the man in the television!!
If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 38 by GDR, posted 12-13-2011 6:02 PM | | GDR has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 46 by Larni, posted 12-14-2011 3:15 AM | | Panda has seen this message but not replied |
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Chuck77
Inactive Member
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Re: CERN Report
Edit. Nevermind, read someones quote wrong. Anyway, I think it doesn't matter whether they find the higgs or don't find it. It's a success either way just to find out if it's out there or not. All the money invested is to try to locate it or rule it out. Both are equally important but finding it would be more gratifying. If it's not there then they can rule it out and venture down other roads. Atleast they know. Edited by Chuck77, : No reason given. Edited by Chuck77, : No reason given.
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kbertsche
Member (Idle past 2159 days) Posts: 1427 From: San Jose, CA, USA Joined: 05-10-2007
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Message 42 of 49 (643990)
12-13-2011 7:29 PM
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Reply to: Message 37 by cavediver
12-13-2011 5:46 PM
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Re: CERN Report
I (and most of my co-workers) found the report and plots a bit underwhelming. The most definitive piece of information is that they ruled it out from 127-600 GeV. They see an excess between 115-127 GeV, on multiple channels, but combined it's only about 3 sigma. Some of the channels show more than a 2 sigma deficit at various energies, which must be due to statistics or analysis error. So I don't see any reason to get excited yet. (But as an accelerator physicist, I certainly hope that this will help to justify the next accelerator!)
"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." — Albert Einstein I am very astonished that the scientific picture of the real world around me is very deficient. It gives us a lot of factual information, puts all of our experience in a magnificently consistent order, but it is ghastly silent about all and sundry that is really near to our heart, that really matters to us. It cannot tell us a word about red and blue, bitter and sweet, physical pain and physical delight; it knows nothing of beautiful and ugly, good or bad, God and eternity. Science sometimes pretends to answer questions in these domains, but the answers are very often so silly that we are not inclined to take them seriously. — Erwin Schroedinger
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 37 by cavediver, posted 12-13-2011 5:46 PM | | cavediver has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 43 by cavediver, posted 12-13-2011 7:36 PM | | kbertsche has replied |
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cavediver
Member (Idle past 3671 days) Posts: 4129 From: UK Joined: 06-16-2005
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Message 43 of 49 (643992)
12-13-2011 7:36 PM
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Reply to: Message 42 by kbertsche
12-13-2011 7:29 PM
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Re: CERN Report
I (and most of my co-workers) found the report and plots a bit underwhelming. Ah - oh well  I'm so busy at the moment that I didn't even read the report (so busy that I haven't yet replied to you in the other thread - will do, promise) but just thought I heard around 3 sigma in each channel (tho' I did wonder why in that case, they didn't give an effective combined...) The 2 sigma deficits are all the selectrinos and sphotinos.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 42 by kbertsche, posted 12-13-2011 7:29 PM | | kbertsche has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 47 by kbertsche, posted 12-14-2011 8:35 PM | | cavediver has not replied |
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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 829 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: 08-12-2009
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Message 44 of 49 (643993)
12-13-2011 7:48 PM
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Reply to: Message 41 by Chuck77
12-13-2011 7:29 PM
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Re: CERN Report
I don't mean to be rude (ok, maybe a little) but there is a reason I addressed cavediver with my question. Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given.
"Why don't you call upon your God to strike me? Oh, I forgot it's because he's fake like Thor, so bite me" -Greydon Square
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 41 by Chuck77, posted 12-13-2011 7:29 PM | | Chuck77 has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 45 by Chuck77, posted 12-13-2011 7:51 PM | | hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied |
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Chuck77
Inactive Member
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Re: CERN Report
Yep, sorry. I read it wrong and couldn't make it a general comment after the fact. It's not directed at you.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 44 by hooah212002, posted 12-13-2011 7:48 PM | | hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied |
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