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Author Topic:   Lack of Defining Features of Intelligent Design
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1485 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 18 of 41 (430475)
10-25-2007 5:37 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by bertvan
10-25-2007 4:55 PM


Re: ID is consistent with, but does not require theism
Yet I do not believe evolution is the result of "natural selection" acting upon a series of genetic accidents. You may not acknowledge evidence that rational intent exists as an aspect of nature, but other people observe organisms and internal organs responding intelligently and purposefully and regard those observations as evidence of the reality of purposeful intent.
So who was the designer, then? Human beings, the only known designers, were not around to do it, yet.
Since there wasn't a designer, we know that the appearance of design is the result of evolution by natural selection, not by actual design. And we know that natural selection and random mutation can create the appearance of design.
That some people see "design" when they look at the natural world is not an indication that anything has been designed. It certainly becomes incumbent on scientists to explain why things look designed in some cases, but natural selection and random mutation does that in the case of every organism that has evolved.
There's no evidence of rational intent to acknowledge, Bert.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by bertvan, posted 10-25-2007 4:55 PM bertvan has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by Elhardt, posted 10-28-2007 8:21 AM crashfrog has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1485 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 25 of 41 (430663)
10-26-2007 3:34 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by bertvan
10-26-2007 1:35 PM


Re: all conclusions are subjective
That is the definition of a conclusion. Some conclusions compel more people than other conclusions do, but I am skeptical of the existence absolute truths.
Here's the fault in your reasoning - tentativity and the contingency of human knowledge aren't excuses to jump to conclusions. In fact they're very good reasons to refuse to jump to conclusions except on the basis of good evidence.
You, on the other hand, on the basis of no evidence, jump to the conclusion that some intelligent designer is responsible for the diversity of life.
Belief in the reality of purposeful creativity and free will as aspects of living systems does not require belief in a personal god.
To be a reasonable belief, it has to be supported by evidence. What is your evidence? Ben Stein's fraudulent movie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by bertvan, posted 10-26-2007 1:35 PM bertvan has replied

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 Message 26 by bertvan, posted 10-27-2007 11:22 AM crashfrog has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1485 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 40 of 41 (431030)
10-28-2007 9:30 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by Elhardt
10-28-2007 8:21 AM


Re: ID is consistent with, but does not require theism
Start out with a preconceived belief system, declare it to be fact, and therefore evolution has to be true.
I guess I don't know what you're talking about. Creationism was the preconceived belief system, historically; but people more interested in evidence than in preconceptions found evidence that contradicted special creation and made a case for evolution.
Thus, evolution developed into the scientific consensus view, and creationism was relegated to surviving on dirty tricks and the gullibility of laypeople like yourself.
I'd dump a bunch of proof onto you, but I know the admins like things to stay on topic. I'll start a topic about that later on.
I look forward to it. Of course, it's a lot better to present the evidence than to simply assert that you have the ability do so but can't be bothered.
And there are many things that can't be explained by evolution, that's why there's still so much controversy.
There's actually no controversy. Just an extensive scientific consensus for evolution and laypeople with a limited grasp of the evidence and religious preconceptions.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Elhardt, posted 10-28-2007 8:21 AM Elhardt has not replied

  
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