Osama Bin Laden Gets What He Gives

Amen. That is a great post. Death is not something to celebrate even if it is a necessary one.

I was not addressing the crowds of US citizens celebrating in the streets at the demise of Bin Laden. You missed my point entirely.
Truthfully I am not to hip street dancing and chanting to celebrate anyone's death. My impressions is that a lot of the people doing this are young immature adults with little life experience or just people caught up in the moment who do not see the hypocrisy of their actions when viewed by the Muslim world.I apologize if I came off a little strong, it was only to hammer my point home not meant to personally attack anyone. However, there is nothing wrong being relieved and feeling a sense of justice at the demise of a mass murderer. Agreed. I am not arguing this. You guys act like it is a sin to be happy that this mass murderer is dead. You act like we should never had pursued this guy to justice and then act all distraught that we have the audacity to conduct a surgical strike to take out someone who killed over 3000 Americans and god knows how many other people around the world. God forbid we actually take action and kill a truly evil person who had no regard for life. What is the difference between my 'rant' and yours? Mere words to trying to make a point. I see no difference between the two. Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.

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"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World

Good post Rhavin. I agree whole-heartedly. I would suspect most of the people who were directly affected by 9-11, are not the ones partying in the streets. My suspicion is that most of the partyers are young people with little life experience who are caught up in their emotions.

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"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World

Again, that is simply not correct.I for one think we were really really stupid to militarily invade Afghanistan and likely criminal in invading Iraq, but that is a far cry from saying we should do nothing.

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

I was not a big supporter of the Iraqi war either and believed we should have pursued Al Queda in Afghanistan before trying to tangle with Huessein in Iraq.However, how praytell could we neutralize Al Queda and Bin Laden without going to the source of his operation in Afghanistan? You really think Bin Laden would have just stopped at 9-11 and not continued his attacks if we had not gone into Afghanistan immediately following 9-11?What actions do you think we should have done since you are evidently smarter than all the US military leaders combined in the last decade.Did we make misakes. Of course. Did we sometimes cause flashback on our own presence in the Middle East. Of course. However, what is the alternative? Sometimes we have had to pick the less of two evils. However, I do not regret our pursuit and removal of Bin Laden from the picture. This I believe was a victory not a mistake.

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"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World

I did not say that we should not have gone after Bin Laden or Al Queda either. I said that a military invasion of Afghanistan was stupid.We could have gone after the key people in Al Queda the very same way we got Bin Laden, through intelligence and a strategic strike.

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

We did not pursue him to justice; instead we assassinated an enemy leader.Personally, I'm happy he's dead. The world is a better place for that. But I'm profoundly bothered that the US chose to kill him rather than bring him to justice.And I'm bothered that the US chose to carry out a special forces mission in the sovereign territory of an ally to do so.

How do you think we attained the intelligence to capture Bin Laden? Al Queda was much larger before we went into Afghanistan. Afghanistan for all intensive purposes was run by the Taliban and Al Queda in the 90's. Al Queda was severelly crippled only after a concerted attack by NATO forces in the region. Stategic strikes can only work if we have the intelligence to act on them. Once the 9-11 attack occured, Bin Laden went underground and became very elusive. It was only after whittling down Al Queda and capturing some of their key members were we able to get this intelligence.

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"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World

I would've rather seen him brought to justice. Letting him rot in some prison would've served us better, instead we made a martyr out of him. I would love to see the tape of the live feed Oboma watched, it might answer a few questions, but that probably wont happen. It would be nice to see if he could've been taken alive, even then it is easy to critique a mission and find faults, being there would be the only way to put it in proper perspective.He was probably shot in the face/head, I am sure that might have something to do with pictures not being shown yet. I think this speaks volumes on how little we trust Pakistan, of course I have always thought he had many sympathizers there. I guess we figured we smooth it out with them later.In the end I don't think this will change too much, but I am glad we got him.It will be interesting to hear all the conspiracy talk from the likes of Alex Jones...ect, I bet there is probably something on prison planet now. One gentleman I talk with on radio has already said he thinks we got him at Guantanamo alive. Should be very entertaining, I love a good nut-job conspiracy. Hell you never know, might even be some truth in some of them!!! LOLEdited by fearandloathing, : No reason given.

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"I hate to advocate the use of drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they always worked for me." - Hunter S. ThompsonAd astra per aspera

We gained intelligence the same way intelligence has always been garnered, slowly, piece by piece using technology, money, threat, force, coercion and most of all, through people on the ground that are accepted into a culture.The issue is whether a full scale military invasion of Afghanistan helped or hindered gathering that information.

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

You and I do not have the details on this operation to make an intelligent critique on how it should have been conducted.Have you ever been in a surgical fire-fight on foreign soil taking down the most infamous terrorist on the planet? No, than I don't think either of us have room to criticize how this went down. It could have gone very, very badly, i.e. the Seal Team captured and tortured or killed while conducting the raid. You and I do not know if there was a choice in killing him or not. Again we do not have all the details. Believe me I think Pakistan can be a good ally for us, but it is evident that this is a country divided in its commitments considering that Bin Laden was located right under the noses of Pakistan military (adjacent to many homes of ISI and active duty/retired Pakistan army officers and only 500 or 600 yards from a Pakastanian military academy). Pakistan only recently decided to start 'cooperating' in the war against terrorism and only because we provided monetary aid to the country. In the 90's and earlier this decade Pakistan harbored and provided aid to the Taliban and Al Queda in their fight against the democratic United National Front movement of Afghanistan.If we attempted to get permission from Pakistan before the attack, it is very plausible that someone in the Pakistan government would have tipped of Bin Laden with possibly disasterous results.

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"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World

Alex JonesalsoThat is what is on prison planet. I hate that some hard evidence wont be given, gives too much ammo for the nut-jobs to use. I guess Osama is hanging out with Elvis in some alternate reality. Yes yes, Osama might become the Muslim Elvis, in Iran one day and Sudan the next.Either way POTUS handles it there will be people waiting to criticize him. I am not sure releasing a few pictures would do too much damage though? I am almost certain some will get out eventually. Better that they are officially released as to avoid the authenticity issue.Edited by fearandloathing, : No reason given.Edited by fearandloathing, : No reason given.Edited by fearandloathing, : No reason given.Edited by fearandloathing, : No reason given.

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"I hate to advocate the use of drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they always worked for me." - Hunter S. ThompsonAd astra per aspera

The problem is, we did not have time to wait to let Al Queda strike again. Al Queda forced our hand by striking on home soil in the same way Japan forced our hand at Pearl Harbor in 1941.

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"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World

I don't see that at all.The issue with Al Queda and Afghanistan and 9-11 is not really cut and dry. Much of the planning for 9-11 as an example took place in the US, Canada, Spain, Indonesia, Philippines, and other areas far removed from Afghanistan.Since you bring up WWII, the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor was about as poorly thought out as so many military actions. The Japanese went after the wrong targets there just as we did with the Afghanistan invasion. (love to discuss that one maybe in a different thread)I am not saying that we should not have moved against Al Queda even in Afghanistan, and I fully support the initial limited introduction of special forces into Afghanistan. What I think was a major and very costly mistake was turning a relatively small covert operation into a full scale military invasion and occupation.

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

The White House released a statement of clarification, stating that bin Laden did not use his wife as a human shield, and that by the time the SEAL's engaged him, he was unarmed. They shot him in the head anyways.This was, allegedly, after a fierce battle with OBL's body guards and courier, who were armed.

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"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine