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Author Topic:   Wombat Pouch
Big_Al35
Member (Idle past 821 days)
Posts: 389
Joined: 06-02-2010


Message 45 of 85 (705109)
08-23-2013 6:39 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by Straggler
05-14-2011 11:03 AM


Straggler writes:
An animal that climbs trees with it's belly dragging across the surface of the tree arguably has much the same reasons for an inverted pouch as a burrowing animal.
If you climb a tree you do have to get back down too. Have you ever seen a koala traverse downwards? Much more useful for a koala would be a sideways facing pouch. Why has nature not produced this? Even better would be a pouch that rotates at the flick of a switch. A gentle spin speed would be natures very own merry go round.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Straggler, posted 05-14-2011 11:03 AM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-23-2013 9:41 AM Big_Al35 has replied
 Message 48 by jar, posted 08-26-2013 9:24 AM Big_Al35 has replied
 Message 50 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-26-2013 9:42 PM Big_Al35 has not replied
 Message 51 by Straggler, posted 08-27-2013 6:15 PM Big_Al35 has not replied

  
Big_Al35
Member (Idle past 821 days)
Posts: 389
Joined: 06-02-2010


Message 47 of 85 (705322)
08-26-2013 9:03 AM
Reply to: Message 46 by New Cat's Eye
08-23-2013 9:41 AM


Why has nature not produced this?
Why hasn't the Intelligent Designer?
Depends on whether you are an evolutionist or a creationist. I have left the question open for all to answer.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-23-2013 9:41 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-26-2013 10:03 AM Big_Al35 has not replied

  
Big_Al35
Member (Idle past 821 days)
Posts: 389
Joined: 06-02-2010


Message 52 of 85 (705663)
08-30-2013 10:36 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by jar
08-26-2013 9:24 AM


Re: Because nature doesn't do anything by design.
jar writes:
There is no plan, no goal, no direction to evolution since we got past the very first simplest life forms. What we see in nature and all living critters is "just goodnuff to get by".
Given that evolution works on the principle of "just goodnuff", it really doesn't matter that much which way the pouch faces. Nature however, operates in a symmetrical fashion, with pouches facing upwards or downwards. We don't find any pouches at a 30 or 45 degree slant which should be perfectly acceptable. Pouches fashioned so that they are 180 degrees opposed suggests that design has played a part.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by jar, posted 08-26-2013 9:24 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by jar, posted 08-30-2013 10:45 AM Big_Al35 has not replied
 Message 54 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-30-2013 12:34 PM Big_Al35 has not replied
 Message 55 by dronestar, posted 08-30-2013 12:41 PM Big_Al35 has not replied
 Message 56 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-30-2013 3:12 PM Big_Al35 has replied

  
Big_Al35
Member (Idle past 821 days)
Posts: 389
Joined: 06-02-2010


Message 57 of 85 (705916)
09-04-2013 4:12 AM
Reply to: Message 56 by Dr Adequate
08-30-2013 3:12 PM


Re: Because nature doesn't do anything by design.
Dr Adequate writes:
In short, being asymmetric is difficult. So "given that evolution works on the principle of "just goodnuff"", asymmetry won't be produced without a very good reason, whereas symmetry is the lazy way of doing things and occurs by default.
This all sounds very plausible initially but a little bit of investigation would have revealed to you that internally we are far from symmetrical. The heart, the colon, intestines, stomach, appendix, pancreas not to mention others are all asymmetric.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-30-2013 3:12 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by Theodoric, posted 09-04-2013 9:10 AM Big_Al35 has replied
 Message 60 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-04-2013 11:43 AM Big_Al35 has replied

  
Big_Al35
Member (Idle past 821 days)
Posts: 389
Joined: 06-02-2010


Message 59 of 85 (705943)
09-04-2013 10:22 AM
Reply to: Message 58 by Theodoric
09-04-2013 9:10 AM


Re: Because nature doesn't do anything by design.
Theoderic writes:
Took me all of 10 seconds to find that.
And your point is?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by Theodoric, posted 09-04-2013 9:10 AM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by Theodoric, posted 09-04-2013 12:34 PM Big_Al35 has replied

  
Big_Al35
Member (Idle past 821 days)
Posts: 389
Joined: 06-02-2010


Message 62 of 85 (705969)
09-04-2013 2:28 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by Theodoric
09-04-2013 12:34 PM


Re: Because nature doesn't do anything by design.
Theoderic writes:
My point is that not only do you have no clue what symmetry and asymmetry mean in biology, you are also incapable of doing basic research about the subject before spouting off and showing your ignorance.
Shame there is no block/ignore feature here.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by Theodoric, posted 09-04-2013 12:34 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by Theodoric, posted 09-04-2013 3:57 PM Big_Al35 has not replied

  
Big_Al35
Member (Idle past 821 days)
Posts: 389
Joined: 06-02-2010


(1)
Message 63 of 85 (705970)
09-04-2013 3:07 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by Dr Adequate
09-04-2013 11:43 AM


Re: Because nature doesn't do anything by design.
Dr Adequate writes:
Credit me with a little common knowledge. I know that, which is why I explicitly said "Genes affecting the exterior of the body are going to be symmetrical in their effect".
Think of the colon. Internally it's asymmetric but it attaches to the rectum and the anus which appear symmetric externally. The birthing canal is similarly asymmetric internally but the pouch appears as symmetric externally.
If you have ever written software code you will know that it is generally good practice to hide the gory implementation details behind a more structured and friendlier interface. You have unwittingly presented your strongest argument for design over blind chance. Well done!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-04-2013 11:43 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 64 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-04-2013 3:39 PM Big_Al35 has not replied
 Message 66 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-05-2013 1:13 PM Big_Al35 has replied

  
Big_Al35
Member (Idle past 821 days)
Posts: 389
Joined: 06-02-2010


Message 69 of 85 (706116)
09-06-2013 9:16 AM
Reply to: Message 66 by Dr Adequate
09-05-2013 1:13 PM


Re: Symmetry
Dr A writes:
The mutation that gives fruit flies an extra pair of wings gives them an extra pair of wings. The mutation that gives an American Curl cat curly ears makes both ears curly.
I'm not sure what point you're trying to make as we only have one anus, one mouth, etc not a pair.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-05-2013 1:13 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 70 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-06-2013 11:01 AM Big_Al35 has not replied

  
Big_Al35
Member (Idle past 821 days)
Posts: 389
Joined: 06-02-2010


Message 73 of 85 (706149)
09-06-2013 1:33 PM
Reply to: Message 71 by Dr Adequate
09-06-2013 12:54 PM


Re: Because nature doesn't do anything by design.
Dr A writes:
Big Al, to his credit, is a perfectly decent guy
Thanks for the vote of confidence. I never expected any acknowledgement on these forums and with my measly 200 posts to your 11000 I had taken my rejection on the chin. I had infact, for the greater part, forsaken EVC. Don't worry though I'm not looking for a slap on the back. I will however continue to make my points, whatever those might be at the time.
Still getting back to the subject, I should point out examples of cleft palate which can have environmental or genetic factors. If you view pictures of these defects you will see that a mutation in this area generally does not have a symmetrical outcome.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-06-2013 12:54 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 74 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-06-2013 2:06 PM Big_Al35 has replied
 Message 75 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-06-2013 2:16 PM Big_Al35 has not replied

  
Big_Al35
Member (Idle past 821 days)
Posts: 389
Joined: 06-02-2010


Message 76 of 85 (706210)
09-08-2013 5:52 AM
Reply to: Message 74 by Dr Adequate
09-06-2013 2:06 PM


Re: Because nature doesn't do anything by design.
Dr A writes:
So long as we're exchanging views about biology, then even if you're completely wrong (which you are)
It is interesting to note that you and your crew/colleagues need to point out that I'm wrong repeatedly both on this topic and countless others that I have contributed to. I think your 11000 posts speaks volumes though. I mean who has the time to make 11000 posts on these forums. Even if I was wrong (which I'm not), who has the time to insist that I am time and time again. In your life you will be right about things and wrong about things but you are behaving like a corporate shill.
I don't know if there is any financial incentive in this for you but clearly you're interested in maintaining a status quo.
Edited by Big_Al35, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-06-2013 2:06 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-08-2013 12:31 PM Big_Al35 has not replied
 Message 78 by ringo, posted 09-08-2013 5:19 PM Big_Al35 has replied

  
Big_Al35
Member (Idle past 821 days)
Posts: 389
Joined: 06-02-2010


Message 79 of 85 (706279)
09-09-2013 7:22 AM
Reply to: Message 78 by ringo
09-08-2013 5:19 PM


Re: Because nature doesn't do anything by design.
ringo writes:
It's true that it usually takes a long time to become well-educated on a particular subject.
I wouldn't worry too much though. With a little bit of patience and hard work even you might get there.
Edited by Big_Al35, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by ringo, posted 09-08-2013 5:19 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 80 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-09-2013 10:56 AM Big_Al35 has replied
 Message 81 by ringo, posted 09-09-2013 11:41 AM Big_Al35 has not replied

  
Big_Al35
Member (Idle past 821 days)
Posts: 389
Joined: 06-02-2010


Message 82 of 85 (706337)
09-09-2013 6:14 PM
Reply to: Message 80 by Dr Adequate
09-09-2013 10:56 AM


Ringo was simply complimenting me on my hard earned knowledge, so I offered him some words of encouragement to show him the way. I don't know what personal attacks you're talking about.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-09-2013 10:56 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 83 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-09-2013 8:25 PM Big_Al35 has replied

  
Big_Al35
Member (Idle past 821 days)
Posts: 389
Joined: 06-02-2010


Message 84 of 85 (706373)
09-10-2013 10:16 AM
Reply to: Message 83 by Dr Adequate
09-09-2013 8:25 PM


Dr A writes:
If you are really too socially inept to realize the problem with your recent posts, then by all means let us omit that discussion and revert to the question of wombat symmetry.
Are you suggesting that he was making some kind of back handed remark? Ahhhh so it's not me who initiated the snide remarks. Nor was it me who stooped to just plain name calling.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-09-2013 8:25 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 85 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-10-2013 1:01 PM Big_Al35 has not replied

  
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