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Author | Topic: Chance as a sole-product of the Universe | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 663 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Stile writes:
Reminds me of ICANT and the "existence of existence". What are the chances that chance exists? I've never thought that chance is an actual thing causing things to happen.Can you indicate any group of people that do follow such a strange idea? It's the kind of philosophical mumbo-jumbo that mike the wiz loves and Phat phalls phor.
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ringo Member (Idle past 663 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
What are the chances of rolling a six? What's the probability of rolling a six? Their basic premise is that chance is logical only when verified by probability. What's the difference?
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ringo Member (Idle past 663 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
We don't throw out phrases like that.
Its when we throw phrases out there like "The universe evolved (or came into being) by chance. Phat writes:
If the probability is unknown, how can you dismiss it as "impossible"? ...chance simply represents an unknown probability. Edited by ringo, : Corrected quote.
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ringo Member (Idle past 663 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
God is an anachronism. He has been ever since we started looking for the real answers to our questions. It has nothing to do with chance. Even if God does exist, He isn't the answer to anything.
Because if there was even the slightest possibility of chance, God would be an anachronism.
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ringo Member (Idle past 663 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
Lack of belief is not a belief.
This must be your belief.
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ringo Member (Idle past 663 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
So why do you believe in God when you don't see Him? Whats the old saying? Seeing Is Believing.... The bizarre claim that God hides so that we have to have faith in Him goes contrary to the old saying.
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ringo Member (Idle past 663 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
The story of Thomas does not support your point. Jesus showed Thomas the evidence. If those who believe without evidence are also blessed, that is not a case of "seeing is believing". You'll have to look for another "old saying" to support blind belief.
If Jesus thinks it is blessed to believe without seeing, who am I to argue with Him? Phat writes:
Why is that a silly argument? What reason do you have to think that Jesus' words were written down with perfect accuracy?
Unless you throw the silly argument at me that the redactor is telling us what Jesus said!
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ringo Member (Idle past 663 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
He did. Jesus showed Thomas.
If God wanted us to see evidence, he would have. Phat writes:
What Jesus said flat out - not "suggested" - was that the way to please God is to feed the hungry, etc. Apparently that is what He meant by having faith.
The Bible never suggests that without evidence it is impossible to please God. It rather suggests that without Faith it is impossible to please God. Phat writes:
Word salad has a lot of fiber in it; it goes right through you.
I suppose my argument is that there is no chance that God exists nor is there a chance that God exists. God exists, period. The argument of necessary certainty.
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ringo Member (Idle past 663 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Does the Pope wish there was no God but since there is he might as well get on His good side? People by nature don't want God to exist. You seem to have a very low opinion of faith - and of a god who would be fooled by people who don't want to believe in him.
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ringo Member (Idle past 663 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
I didn't read the whole thing. One comment that made me cringe was, "Life itself has climbed a ladder of chaos to reach new heights of order." Really? And he keeps on digging the hole: "Genes are not “supposed” to mutate. They are supposed to perfectly replicate themselves in a predictable manner." If he doesn't know the first thing about chemistry, he shouldn't write about it. Read my link in the last post and tell me what comes to mind comparing that philosophy to classic scripture. So, instead of hoping that I'll see what you see, why don't you tell us how it contrasts with classic scripture.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 663 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
So you've given up on throwing scripture out the window? My argument is essentially that scripture provides rational "old order" answers that chaos theory and human reasoning have been trying to overthrow ever since the snake whispered in Eves' ear.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 663 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Whatever knowledge of scripture I have is based on many years of hearing it on an almost daily basis. Reading one article isn't likely to have much of an impact. I was hoping that your encyclopedic knowledge of scripture would provide you an opportunity to refute your original proclamation that God was an anachronism. The only thing I said in this thread about God being an anachronism was in Message 128:
quote:I stand by that. And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 663 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
There is wisdom that comes with life experience and has nothing to do with any belief system.
The authors of scripture, though derided as "Bronze Age Goatherders", stated some profound assertions regarding life experience and human nature. Phat writes:
I think you're making a fundamental error in trying to equate Satan with chaos and God with order.
I need to get ready for work but will continue forming some sort of arguments regarding certainty vs probability and good being the highest ideal vs chaos and order/disorder yin/yang type of thinking ... Phat writes:
I don't think it was any external ideas that caused the decline and fall of Christianity. I think it collapsed from its own weight and structural weaknesses. ...which I believe to be one of the social ideas that undermined Christian absolutism.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 663 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
The review starts out, "This truly dreadful book...." Here are the basic arguments that support rational secular thinking, regarding RC Sprouls book (and my sig quote) Which side are we on?And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 663 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
dwise1 writes:
It seems like our generation and our parents' generation were the only ones where large families were common. My grandfather had twelve children but several of his siblings died in childhood. His children had an average of four children each. My mother's mother gave birth six times, but only two children survived. That was in the USA in the early 20th Century.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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