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Junior Member (Idle past 4448 days) Posts: 11 From: United Kingdom Joined: |
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Author | Topic: new creation/evolution debate forum | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Panda Member (Idle past 3970 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: |
Catholic Scientist writes:
I've seen how it starts:
...game clip... "If you're going to storm Kim Jong Il's palace single-handed, we have very little time left to make you the world's ultimate soldier! ...which will be difficult, because you're gay now. "Team America
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frako Member Posts: 2932 From: slovenija Joined: |
This makes me agree with Gandhi's answer to the question:" What do you think of western civilization?" I think it would be a grate idea
Edited by frako, : No reason given.
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Taz Member (Idle past 3548 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: |
Looks like crazynuts has recruited a fellow creationist (aka himself using another name).
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fearandloathing Member (Idle past 4402 days) Posts: 990 From: Burlington, NC, USA Joined: |
Yea, The moderator probably shouldn't be the only participant in a debate, He needs more people. I'll lurk around and see what develops. Split personality is still an option , that would be He- Larry- Us...
"I hate to advocate the use of drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they always worked for me." - Hunter S. Thompson Ad astra per aspera Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.
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dwise1 Member Posts: 6077 Joined: Member Rating: 7.2 |
Or as it was called on talk.origins, sock puppets. That was where a dishonest poster (always a creationist, as I recall) would join in under a different name and then have discussions with himself. Either the sock puppet would be a syncophant and thus be the only one there agreeing with the puppeteer, or the sock puppet would be a strawman opponent that the puppeteer could then defeat decisively.
Hopefully, that's not what's happening in this case.
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Shield Member (Idle past 3119 days) Posts: 482 Joined: |
I joined and wrote a few posts..
I think he is one of those creationist who just watched a bunch of Hovind videos, and never went beyond that.
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Taz Member (Idle past 3548 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: |
I have a confession to make. I'm actually a closeted transgendered homosexual Afro-American Creationist who's a life-long registered Republican.
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dwise1 Member Posts: 6077 Joined: Member Rating: 7.2 |
May I ask you where on that site you had gotten your quote from? That solar-mass-loss claim would be a very good one to start with. And as for the moondust claim, since I have personally pulled that NASA documument off the library shelf and gazed upon its cover, the very act of which disproves Henry Morris' claim, that would be good for seconds.
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Taz Member (Idle past 3548 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: |
dwise1 writes:
Hahaha. I see you missed what happened. The site actually became quite active. Slappie, a very science literate person, began to inform the site founder of all his misconceptions. I began to weigh in as well. Then posts began to disappear. Then threads began to disappear. May I ask you where on that site you had gotten your quote from? That solar-mass-loss claim would be a very good one to start with. And as for the moondust claim, since I have personally pulled that NASA documument off the library shelf and gazed upon its cover, the very act of which disproves Henry Morris' claim, that would be good for seconds. Later on, crazynuts, the site founder, claimed that someone else using his account had erased all the threads (ahem *sockpuppet*). I wish I had saved all the conversations that went on before everything got erased. Showed me just how uninformed the site founder was. He didn't even have the most basic knowledge about science. Very typical of a 13 year old.
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dwise1 Member Posts: 6077 Joined: Member Rating: 7.2 |
I have described that as the "sucker born every minute" effect. Most creationists drop like flies as they learn that everything their religious leaders have told them was nothing but lies.
More insidiously, the same old false creationist books and materials and claims remain unchanged, so every new generation of creationist just gets fed the same old tired lies. The problem of PRATTs is that each new generation of creationist needs to be taught the truth, because any refutation or disclaimer is completely unknown to the new generations. For example, in the early 1980's, Henry Morris' book, Scientific Creationism, had a footnote claiming that a "1976" NASA document, published "well into the space age", showed that the depth of the meteoric dust on the moon should have been over 200 feet thick. Well, I personally pulled that "1976" NASA document off the university shelf: it was actually a 1967 printing of a 1965 conference. And the actual calculation was a "back of the envelope" calculation by Harold Slusher which threw in a combinded factor of 10,000 that had no mathematical basis. The end result was that after the billions of years that science expects the moon to have been in existence, we should only expect about a third of an inch of dust. Though that solar-mass-loss claim is far less common, so I'm much more interested in observing their heads implode as the truth hits them.
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Taz Member (Idle past 3548 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: |
This is one reason why creationists tend to cite outdated material... and even then they don't cite it correctly.
They are the god-fearing side who's got the moral high grounds. We're the baby-eating atheists who worship satan. And yet we value the truth a hell of a lot more than creationists. How ironic...
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dwise1 Member Posts: 6077 Joined: Member Rating: 7.2 |
But don't they consider their Christ to be Truth Incarnate, as in "I am the Truth and the Way."? Seems odd that they would oppose and hate the truth so strongly.
I've registered and have posted my question about that solar mass loss claim. We shall see. PSThe thing about that NASA document. In a 1985 debate I attended, Morris and Gish vs Thwaites and Awbrey, part of H. Morris' response to their using outdated sources was to point out this "1976" NASA document written "well into the space age" (an incantation that just about every creationist would make when referring to it). I followed up by writing to the ICR asking about that and Gish responded with a copy of a letter by Harold Slusher that described that claim. When I later stumbled upon that document while looking for something else, it all be came instantly clear. Morris cited that NASA document in his book, Scientific Creationism in a footnote to his misuse of a 1960 Scientific American article. Although he cited that NASA document as his source, he obviously had never even seen it. Rather, his real source was Slusher, who also cites that same document even though he obviously had never seen it either -- he also cites it as Volume II of a series, whereas it was actually Volume 11. IOW, they routinely lie in their bibliographies too. When I made my discovery, I responded to Gish asking why they don't verify their sources and enclosed a xerox of the front of that document. He responded that the document most definitely was from 1976 (denying the solid evidence before him) and that they don't have the funds to do actual research (well, words to that effect). I replied back, again with a xerox of the front cover, and he refused to reply. Months later, I read in their Acts & Facts that Gish was appearing locally, so I attended and afterwards respectfully asked him about that claim. He pretended to know nothing at all about it, but took down my name and address to get back with me. Immediately, my subscription to Acts & Facts was cancelled; even Eugenie Scott was shocked at that one. Around 1991, I told my fundamentalist brother-in-law about that and he volunteered to be my front and wrote to the ICR asking about that claim. This time it was a graduate student who responded that they no longer used that claim, citing the intro to a newer book by H. Morris. My point was that, even though the claim has been soundly refuted and the ICR has disavowed it, Scientific Creationism has not been corrected and is still on sale as are their other books which have that "Uniformitarian Ages of the Earth" appendix that includes Slusher's false moondust claim. And almost every creationist who reads those books still thinks that that false moondust claim is true. Edited by dwise1, : PS
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Taz Member (Idle past 3548 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: |
I participated a bit before he deleted everything to start over. I actually spent a lot of time writing out details and linking to sources for him. I even painstakingly wrote things in laymen's language to explain basic things of science that he seemed to not understand. And then poof everything was gone. I'm kinda weary to participate again knowing everything could be gone again.
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dwise1 Member Posts: 6077 Joined: Member Rating: 7.2 |
Too many times even on this forum I've lost a detailed reply by the board going down or whatever else. I have learned to compose my reply in a text editor and then copy-and-paste it in for the final submission.
Just passing on that pearl of wisdom.
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Admin Director Posts: 13108 From: EvC Forum Joined: |
dwise1 writes: Too many times even on this forum I've lost a detailed reply by the board going down or whatever else. Oops - apologies! Often if you click the back button (multiple times if necessary, depending upon what you've done) you can return to the reply page with the text of your message still in the reply box.
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