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Author Topic:   new creation/evolution debate forum
Panda
Member (Idle past 2370 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 31 of 118 (617076)
05-25-2011 6:25 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by New Cat's Eye
05-25-2011 6:06 PM


Re: lulz
Catholic Scientist writes:

...game clip...


I've seen how it starts:

"If you're going to storm Kim Jong Il's palace single-handed, we have very little time left to make you the world's ultimate soldier! ...which will be difficult, because you're gay now. "
Team America


This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by New Cat's Eye, posted 05-25-2011 6:06 PM New Cat's Eye has not yet responded

  
frako
Member
Posts: 2923
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 32 of 118 (617083)
05-25-2011 7:13 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by New Cat's Eye
05-25-2011 6:06 PM


Re: lulz
This makes me agree with Gandhi's answer to the question:" What do you think of western civilization?" I think it would be a grate idea

Edited by frako, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by New Cat's Eye, posted 05-25-2011 6:06 PM New Cat's Eye has not yet responded

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 1949 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 33 of 118 (617161)
05-26-2011 10:38 AM


Looks like crazynuts has recruited a fellow creationist (aka himself using another name).

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by fearandloathing, posted 05-26-2011 10:53 AM Taz has not yet responded
 Message 35 by dwise1, posted 05-26-2011 2:21 PM Taz has responded

  
fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 2802 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


Message 34 of 118 (617165)
05-26-2011 10:53 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by Taz
05-26-2011 10:38 AM


Yea, The moderator probably shouldn't be the only participant in a debate, He needs more people. I'll lurk around and see what develops. Split personality is still an option , that would be He- Larry- Us...


"I hate to advocate the use of drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they always worked for me." - Hunter S. Thompson

Ad astra per aspera

Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Taz, posted 05-26-2011 10:38 AM Taz has not yet responded

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 4352
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 35 of 118 (617189)
05-26-2011 2:21 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by Taz
05-26-2011 10:38 AM


Or as it was called on talk.origins, sock puppets. That was where a dishonest poster (always a creationist, as I recall) would join in under a different name and then have discussions with himself. Either the sock puppet would be a syncophant and thus be the only one there agreeing with the puppeteer, or the sock puppet would be a strawman opponent that the puppeteer could then defeat decisively.

Hopefully, that's not what's happening in this case.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Taz, posted 05-26-2011 10:38 AM Taz has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by Taz, posted 05-27-2011 2:17 AM dwise1 has not yet responded

  
Shield
Member (Idle past 1519 days)
Posts: 482
Joined: 01-29-2008


Message 36 of 118 (617209)
05-26-2011 3:48 PM


I joined and wrote a few posts..

I think he is one of those creationist who just watched a bunch of Hovind videos, and never went beyond that.


  
Taz
Member (Idle past 1949 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 37 of 118 (617265)
05-27-2011 2:17 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by dwise1
05-26-2011 2:21 PM


I have a confession to make. I'm actually a closeted transgendered homosexual Afro-American Creationist who's a life-long registered Republican.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by dwise1, posted 05-26-2011 2:21 PM dwise1 has not yet responded

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 4352
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 38 of 118 (617268)
05-27-2011 2:43 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by Taz
05-25-2011 10:16 AM


Re: BS spam site,
May I ask you where on that site you had gotten your quote from? That solar-mass-loss claim would be a very good one to start with. And as for the moondust claim, since I have personally pulled that NASA documument off the library shelf and gazed upon its cover, the very act of which disproves Henry Morris' claim, that would be good for seconds.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Taz, posted 05-25-2011 10:16 AM Taz has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by Taz, posted 05-27-2011 3:09 AM dwise1 has responded

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 1949 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 39 of 118 (617270)
05-27-2011 3:09 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by dwise1
05-27-2011 2:43 AM


Re: BS spam site,
dwise1 writes:

May I ask you where on that site you had gotten your quote from? That solar-mass-loss claim would be a very good one to start with. And as for the moondust claim, since I have personally pulled that NASA documument off the library shelf and gazed upon its cover, the very act of which disproves Henry Morris' claim, that would be good for seconds.


Hahaha. I see you missed what happened. The site actually became quite active. Slappie, a very science literate person, began to inform the site founder of all his misconceptions. I began to weigh in as well. Then posts began to disappear. Then threads began to disappear.

Later on, crazynuts, the site founder, claimed that someone else using his account had erased all the threads (ahem *sockpuppet*).

I wish I had saved all the conversations that went on before everything got erased. Showed me just how uninformed the site founder was. He didn't even have the most basic knowledge about science. Very typical of a 13 year old.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by dwise1, posted 05-27-2011 2:43 AM dwise1 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by dwise1, posted 05-27-2011 3:54 AM Taz has responded

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 4352
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 40 of 118 (617271)
05-27-2011 3:54 AM
Reply to: Message 39 by Taz
05-27-2011 3:09 AM


Re: BS spam site,
I have described that as the "sucker born every minute" effect. Most creationists drop like flies as they learn that everything their religious leaders have told them was nothing but lies.

More insidiously, the same old false creationist books and materials and claims remain unchanged, so every new generation of creationist just gets fed the same old tired lies. The problem of PRATTs is that each new generation of creationist needs to be taught the truth, because any refutation or disclaimer is completely unknown to the new generations.

For example, in the early 1980's, Henry Morris' book, Scientific Creationism, had a footnote claiming that a "1976" NASA document, published "well into the space age", showed that the depth of the meteoric dust on the moon should have been over 200 feet thick. Well, I personally pulled that "1976" NASA document off the university shelf: it was actually a 1967 printing of a 1965 conference. And the actual calculation was a "back of the envelope" calculation by Harold Slusher which threw in a combinded factor of 10,000 that had no mathematical basis. The end result was that after the billions of years that science expects the moon to have been in existence, we should only expect about a third of an inch of dust.

Though that solar-mass-loss claim is far less common, so I'm much more interested in observing their heads implode as the truth hits them.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by Taz, posted 05-27-2011 3:09 AM Taz has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by Taz, posted 05-27-2011 1:18 PM dwise1 has responded

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 1949 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 41 of 118 (617311)
05-27-2011 1:18 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by dwise1
05-27-2011 3:54 AM


Re: BS spam site,
This is one reason why creationists tend to cite outdated material... and even then they don't cite it correctly.

They are the god-fearing side who's got the moral high grounds. We're the baby-eating atheists who worship satan. And yet we value the truth a hell of a lot more than creationists. How ironic...


This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by dwise1, posted 05-27-2011 3:54 AM dwise1 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by dwise1, posted 05-27-2011 1:43 PM Taz has responded

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 4352
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 42 of 118 (617312)
05-27-2011 1:43 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by Taz
05-27-2011 1:18 PM


Re: BS spam site,
But don't they consider their Christ to be Truth Incarnate, as in "I am the Truth and the Way."? Seems odd that they would oppose and hate the truth so strongly.

I've registered and have posted my question about that solar mass loss claim. We shall see.

PS
The thing about that NASA document. In a 1985 debate I attended, Morris and Gish vs Thwaites and Awbrey, part of H. Morris' response to their using outdated sources was to point out this "1976" NASA document written "well into the space age" (an incantation that just about every creationist would make when referring to it). I followed up by writing to the ICR asking about that and Gish responded with a copy of a letter by Harold Slusher that described that claim. When I later stumbled upon that document while looking for something else, it all be came instantly clear.

Morris cited that NASA document in his book, Scientific Creationism in a footnote to his misuse of a 1960 Scientific American article. Although he cited that NASA document as his source, he obviously had never even seen it. Rather, his real source was Slusher, who also cites that same document even though he obviously had never seen it either -- he also cites it as Volume II of a series, whereas it was actually Volume 11. IOW, they routinely lie in their bibliographies too.

When I made my discovery, I responded to Gish asking why they don't verify their sources and enclosed a xerox of the front of that document. He responded that the document most definitely was from 1976 (denying the solid evidence before him) and that they don't have the funds to do actual research (well, words to that effect). I replied back, again with a xerox of the front cover, and he refused to reply. Months later, I read in their Acts & Facts that Gish was appearing locally, so I attended and afterwards respectfully asked him about that claim. He pretended to know nothing at all about it, but took down my name and address to get back with me. Immediately, my subscription to Acts & Facts was cancelled; even Eugenie Scott was shocked at that one.

Around 1991, I told my fundamentalist brother-in-law about that and he volunteered to be my front and wrote to the ICR asking about that claim. This time it was a graduate student who responded that they no longer used that claim, citing the intro to a newer book by H. Morris.

My point was that, even though the claim has been soundly refuted and the ICR has disavowed it, Scientific Creationism has not been corrected and is still on sale as are their other books which have that "Uniformitarian Ages of the Earth" appendix that includes Slusher's false moondust claim. And almost every creationist who reads those books still thinks that that false moondust claim is true.

Edited by dwise1, : PS


This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by Taz, posted 05-27-2011 1:18 PM Taz has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by Taz, posted 05-27-2011 1:54 PM dwise1 has responded
 Message 48 by Taz, posted 05-27-2011 3:48 PM dwise1 has not yet responded

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 1949 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 43 of 118 (617313)
05-27-2011 1:54 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by dwise1
05-27-2011 1:43 PM


Re: BS spam site,
I participated a bit before he deleted everything to start over. I actually spent a lot of time writing out details and linking to sources for him. I even painstakingly wrote things in laymen's language to explain basic things of science that he seemed to not understand. And then poof everything was gone. I'm kinda weary to participate again knowing everything could be gone again.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by dwise1, posted 05-27-2011 1:43 PM dwise1 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by dwise1, posted 05-27-2011 2:05 PM Taz has responded

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 4352
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 44 of 118 (617315)
05-27-2011 2:05 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by Taz
05-27-2011 1:54 PM


Re: BS spam site,
Too many times even on this forum I've lost a detailed reply by the board going down or whatever else. I have learned to compose my reply in a text editor and then copy-and-paste it in for the final submission.

Just passing on that pearl of wisdom.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by Taz, posted 05-27-2011 1:54 PM Taz has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by Admin, posted 05-27-2011 3:06 PM dwise1 has not yet responded
 Message 46 by Taz, posted 05-27-2011 3:09 PM dwise1 has responded

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12705
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002


Message 45 of 118 (617324)
05-27-2011 3:06 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by dwise1
05-27-2011 2:05 PM


Re: BS spam site,
dwise1 writes:

Too many times even on this forum I've lost a detailed reply by the board going down or whatever else.

Oops - apologies!

Often if you click the back button (multiple times if necessary, depending upon what you've done) you can return to the reply page with the text of your message still in the reply box.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
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