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Author Topic:   Dog piling
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17827
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 43 of 89 (621050)
06-23-2011 2:39 AM
Reply to: Message 42 by Buzsaw
06-23-2011 1:32 AM


Re: Pack's Perspective Prevails, Period
quote:
only wish that the pack would stop imposing their science on the creationist minority.
The pack I led by the pack leader/s gets to dictate what science is and is not
So you want people to stop telling the truth and pretend that crap that you just made up is real science.
quote:
The pack rejects any evidence implying the existence in the Universe of a higher intelligence. To do so shoots down their secularistic hypothetical perspective, rendering them, perhaps accountable to a higher power.
Again, you want people to prefer your inventions to the truth. And accept your opinions no matter how poorly-reasoned.
quote:
Case in point: THE EXODUS THREAD where not one of my acclaimed evidences were considered evidence by the pack.
Indeed, it is a case which supports my reading.
quote:
CASE IN POINT: Message 252 after which I got ousted from science forums.
As does this. You cannot give a valid reason why the Flood should have the effects you claim. It is nothing but invention.
quote:
Yet the pack considers the Singularity event, having no space into which have happened, no time in which to have happened and no outside of into which to expand, as evidence based.
By which you mean that "the pack" accept the opinions of leading, expert, scientists over that of some ignorant guy on the internet. This would seem to be a rational position.
quote:
After 30 or so pages of debating the pack as to what property of space makes it curve, the pack's consensus amounted to something like, the property of space that makes it curve is that space curves.
No, it wasn't. That was the misrepresentation you kept appealing to.
quote:
The first ever EvC Great debate was when the pack's Pack Man Jar was to debate me, Buzsaw on the 3LoTs, whether my hypothetical creationist perspective satisfied the LoTs
And you managed a draw because you were fortunate enough to have a weak opponent. Despite the fact that your assertion is actually false.
quote:
It wasn't long after I debated the pack on the property of space to curve that I was again permanently banned, still having no suspensions on my record. I'm not claiming to have won that debate. My claim is that my counterparts didn't win it either. Thus the length of it.
But you did lose. The length of the debate was governed only by your willingness to go on boasting nonsense. That only proves your unwillingness to accept defeat.
quote:
I've said all of the above to say that all we creationist minority members need is the for the pack to allow us to debate from the creationist hypothetical perspective, relative to science and evidence.
By which you mean that they should accept your fabrications as fact.
That isn't going to happen, and it shouldn't happen.
quote:
'm not asking anyone to accept anything relating to the creationist perspective as to whether it's evidence or not. All we ask of the pack is to allow us to air our POV, debating from our hypothetical perspective relative to evidence and science. Lennart Moller, renowned marine biologist claims to have photographed corral shaped forms citing numerous corroborative acclaims to evidence. From the perspective of many creationists, scientist Moller has cited evidence from scientific research. Counterparts argue that none of it is considered evidence, ordering Buzsaw to produce what is considered by the pack as evidence or leave off debating the topic,
Of course you are telling untruths here. Moller is NOT renowned as a marine scientist. The existence of the coral forms has generally been accepted. What has NOT been accepted is the assertion that the coral forms were built around ancient Egyptian chariot wheels. And that is because the evidence that would allow us to conclude that has not been presented. Apparently the "renowned marine biologist" can't even give us the growth rates for the coral in question....
Look, there's no point getting frustrated because people prefer facts and sound reasoning to your imaginings. That's the way it has to be on ANY forum which tries to get to the truth. So stop whining and demanding that the forum must be biased in your favour. Accept your (many) defeats and move on.
Edited by PaulK, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by Buzsaw, posted 06-23-2011 1:32 AM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by AZPaul3, posted 06-23-2011 3:34 PM PaulK has not replied
 Message 49 by Buzsaw, posted 06-23-2011 9:28 PM PaulK has replied
 Message 57 by Chuck77, posted 06-24-2011 3:59 AM PaulK has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17827
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 56 of 89 (621134)
06-24-2011 1:58 AM
Reply to: Message 49 by Buzsaw
06-23-2011 9:28 PM


Re: Pack's Perspective Prevails, Period
quote:
What is truth, Paul? Truth is relative to whose perspective truth is deemed credible. By all means, keep on telling your perspective of what is true. That's a lot of what debate boards are about. No?
In other words you assume that all truth is relative so that well-established science is on a par with some indefensible nonsense you just made up. Of course I disagree.
quote:
Some intelligent, educated and renowned creationists view some of conventional science's abstract methodology, defying logic, for arriving at truth as poor science.
Which only means that they attack science because it comes to conclusions they don't like.
quote:
Reasoned? Logic and reason are related. Again, whose hypothetical perspective is reasonable is debatable. We're demanding nothing of the pack. The pack is the unreasonable majority who's methodology often defies logic. The pack and their leaders demand their way or the highway.
As usual when you say that it is "debatable" you mean that you refuse to admit that you are wrong. And if you cannot understand a position, you cannot know that it is "lacking logic".
In short this is more of the same, whining that people do not unquestionably accept your silly opinions.
quote:
That depends on whose/what hypothetical perspective you are reading.
Of course I am assuming a basically honest reader rather than someone who unquestioningly worships you.
quote:
You mean, like the singularity, abiogenesis and multi verse theories, deemed by many as inventions arrived at via abstract methodology, defying logic, some, unsupported by basic thermodynamic scientific laws? Many don't think valid reasons are given to render the above the status of theory.
No, I don't. ALL of these are better supported than your opinion, which relies only on "Buzsaw says so". The singularity - assuming you mean the state at the start of the Big Bang = is obtained by applying known science. Naturalistic abiogenesis is not cited as a fact although we have evidence to support the idea that it happened and no better explanation of life on Earth. The multiverse is cited only as a possibility that is consistent with known science. None of these defy logic or thermodynamics.
If you could actually give a real valid mechanism by which the Flood would consistently mess up all the dating mechanisms I would admit that you have a point, But you don't even really try.
quote:
These are all elitist who have had their minds programmed through the assembly line of academia from kindergarten on up to graduate level; whose prestige, peer status and livelihood require pack supported hypothetical perspectives.
All unsubstantiated accusations.
quote:
The only problem is that the dog piling pack failed to empirically falsify my winning arguments after that debate. The pack, which agreed upon judging the debate resorted to ousting the winner instead. Typical. No?
In fact counter-arguments were given which you could not address.
quote:
I'm not asking anyone to accept anything relating to the creationist perspective as to whether it's evidence or not. All we ask of the pack is to allow us to air our POV, debating from our hypothetical perspective relative to evidence and science. Lennart Moller, renowned marine biologist claims to have photographed corral shaped forms citing numerous corroborative acclaims to evidence. From the perspective of many creationists, scientist Moller has cited evidence from scientific research. Counterparts argue that none of it is considered evidence, ordering Buzsaw to produce what is considered by the pack as evidence or leave off debating the topic,
Sp what do you mean by "allowing your perspective", if not agreeing with your false assertions ? Do you mean that disagreement should be censored ? If you put your claims out for debate or tender them as evidence then we MUST be free to disagree and even to show that they are false.
You refer back to the Exodus thread where I personally debunked much of your "evidence" and showed that the rest was of no real value in supporting the Exodus myth. And that is simple, absolute truth.
All you are complaining about is the fact that Admin wouldn't let you drag out the thread uselessly by repeating the same assertions after they had been dealt with. Since you dishonestly attempt to use the length of the thread to argue that you were doing well (when you were only dragging it out to avoid accepting defeat) Admin's actions seem quite appropriate. Certainly they were directed to making progress in the discussion. The fact that you diid not want the discussion to progress because your case had been shattered is irrelevant.
quote:
Back to square one. Whose perspective of what is true and renowned by whom? By some credible institutions, yes, Moller is considered renowned as a marine biologist, having the marine craft, equipped with the scientific technology to do scientific research and the knowledge to use it effectively in his profession.
That's simply a lie. Moller's speciality is Environmental Medicine.
quote:
Of course, the pack mustn't acknowledge any of Moller's corroborating evidences as evidence, supportive to Moller's photographed acclaimed evidence. No, none of that for the pack, who's secularistic mindset is at stake
All the "evidences" were shown to be either false, questionable and/or had no clear connection to the Exodus. That is simple fact.
quote:
Yah, I know, Paul. How many times do I have to be told? I shouldn't be responding to the pack's arguments relative to thread topics like this. These sorts of threads are deemed the pack's turf. That's considered whining; not debate. Whining is considered off topic by the pack.
Of course you are whining. You are attacking your opponents because you were badly defeated in a debate. You are complaining that your assertions are not unquestioningly believed. You are complaining that you are expected to produce real evidence for your claims when they venture into the domain of science. How is any of that anything but whining ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by Buzsaw, posted 06-23-2011 9:28 PM Buzsaw has seen this message but not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17827
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 65 of 89 (621154)
06-24-2011 7:24 AM
Reply to: Message 57 by Chuck77
06-24-2011 3:59 AM


Buzsaw a leading creation scientist ?
quote:
PaulK, that is a baseless comment right there. It's no better than the one's you're critisizing. What makes you think the "leading" Scientists "opinions" ( a word YOU used) Yes, opinions are any better than the "leading" Creation Scientists'?
Chuck, you are mixing three different things here.
1) My point is that I should prefer the opinions of leading experts to those of Buzsaw, who is NOT a "leading Creation Scientist" at all (and in fact he Is prepared to attack "Creation Scientists" too, for not agreeing with him)
2) Being a "leading Creation Scientist" does not confer any special expertise in any field of science, let alone all of them. It does, however, indicate a strong bias in favour of YEC beliefs.
3) Steve Austin has actual qualifications and publications in geology and these - not his position within "Creation Science" represent his only claim to scientific authority.
I hope that you can see that there is a big difference between dismissing Buzsaw's views on cosmology out of hand and doing the same to Steve Austin's claims about geology.
However, I would put it to you that without an actual discussion of Steve Austin's claims, it would still be rational to prefer the mainstream position. Steve Austin is not especially distinguished within geology. There are strong grounds to think that he is heavily biased in favour of the YEC view. Why then should we prefer his view over that of the many people as well or better qualified, with less bias ?
That said, if you wish to open a topic to discuss Steve Austin's flood evidence, please go ahead. The evidence is always more important than credentials.
OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message by continuing in this vein.
AdminPD
Edited by PaulK, : No reason given.
Edited by AdminPD, : Warning

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by Chuck77, posted 06-24-2011 3:59 AM Chuck77 has not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17827
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 71 of 89 (621335)
06-25-2011 4:47 AM
Reply to: Message 70 by Chuck77
06-25-2011 1:24 AM


Interestingly I would say that you have the situation pretty much backwards.
(As a personal note, I find IC and CSI/TDI pretty easy to understand. But nobody who truly understood would try to use either as arguments against evolution or for design in biology)
I think dog piling is more due to the relative shortage of creationists here (most prefer sites rigged in their favour - and every so often we see demands to rig this site in their favour, too). And also due to the fact that many creationist arguments are widely known to be erroneous, so many people feel capable of responding.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by Chuck77, posted 06-25-2011 1:24 AM Chuck77 has not replied

  
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