Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 64 (9057 total)
43 online now:
PaulK, Percy (Admin), Tangle, Tanypteryx (4 members, 39 visitors)
Newest Member: drlove
Post Volume: Total: 889,820 Year: 932/6,534 Month: 932/682 Week: 167/445 Day: 12/48 Hour: 1/2


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Dog piling
Panda
Member (Idle past 2826 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 1 of 89 (618804)
06-06-2011 9:54 AM


(I have not thought long and hard about this, so I expect and appreciate some criticism.)

Could we have a new forum guideline regarding new members?

Something like:
No more than 2 people are allowed to reply to a new member in a single thread.

If you are new to this forum, then it can be quite a shock to the system to see the level of detailed knowledge that is required to debate here.
I fear that 'dog piling' would scare people off before they have a chance to up their game.

I am not sure that any good comes from 'dog piling' new members.
(But I do kinda feel that if someone has posted here for years and says something 'stupid' then they deserve to be jumped on. )

What do you people think?

Edited by Panda, : Tyops


Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Straggler, posted 06-06-2011 10:05 AM Panda has responded
 Message 3 by Theodoric, posted 06-06-2011 11:18 AM Panda has responded
 Message 4 by purpledawn, posted 06-06-2011 12:08 PM Panda has responded
 Message 16 by fearandloathing, posted 06-06-2011 5:34 PM Panda has responded
 Message 24 by RAZD, posted 06-10-2011 8:10 AM Panda has acknowledged this reply
 Message 34 by Trae, posted 06-14-2011 8:53 AM Panda has responded
 Message 69 by Taq, posted 06-24-2011 11:59 AM Panda has not yet responded
 Message 89 by trisha, posted 09-01-2011 6:39 AM Panda has not yet responded

  
Straggler
Member (Idle past 82 days)
Posts: 10332
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 2 of 89 (618805)
06-06-2011 10:05 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Panda
06-06-2011 9:54 AM


"Dog piling"
"Dog piling" - Is that what is called?

Not sure how this could be enforced exactly. Or whether moderators would really want to be responsible for enforcing it. But you are probably right in so far as self-censorship is concerned. There definitley comes a point where sheer number of responses can be overwhelming. Especially for a new member. Especially for a new member taking a creationist/IDist position on this forum.

I am sure I have "dog piled" before. The smell of fresh blood just too much to resist. But you have a point.

Were you thinking of new members Chuck77 and Portillo by any chance?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Panda, posted 06-06-2011 9:54 AM Panda has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by Panda, posted 06-06-2011 12:33 PM Straggler has responded
 Message 88 by Portillo, posted 08-29-2011 5:52 AM Straggler has not yet responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7148
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 3 of 89 (618811)
06-06-2011 11:18 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Panda
06-06-2011 9:54 AM


Unenforceable and this site already panders to the creo side. If they make an argument that can be refuted then any member should feel free to post. I do think it is important not to harp on the same thing someone else already has. But many of the ramblings of the newer members have many avenues by which they can be refuted.

I agree with your sentiment, but feel the limitations imposed would be to great. Also, this would empower an even lower class of poster than we are seeing now.

I think the vast majority of us have been dogpiled in the past. We made it through. If they don't have the stones for it then this is not the place for them. I think the dogpiling helps separate the wheat from the chaff. Aaron is still posting.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Panda, posted 06-06-2011 9:54 AM Panda has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by Panda, posted 06-06-2011 12:47 PM Theodoric has responded

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 2571 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 4 of 89 (618813)
06-06-2011 12:08 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Panda
06-06-2011 9:54 AM


Same Old Responses
Unfortunately we found out in another thread that common courtesy isn't necessarily on everyone's to-do list.

IMO, just because we survived it, doesn't mean we have to dish it out.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Panda, posted 06-06-2011 9:54 AM Panda has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by Panda, posted 06-06-2011 12:50 PM purpledawn has not yet responded

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 2826 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 5 of 89 (618814)
06-06-2011 12:33 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Straggler
06-06-2011 10:05 AM


Re: "Dog piling"
Straggler writes:

Not sure how this could be enforced exactly. Or whether moderators would really want to be responsible for enforcing it.


I presume it could be enforced by hiding posts that are dog piling?
As to whether the mods want to do it - I guess we will have to see...

Straggler writes:

I am sure I have "dog piled" before. The smell of fresh blood just too much to resist.


Me too. But maybe I shouldn't have.
And I have also not posted because I felt there was too many posts already.

Straggler writes:

Were you thinking of new members Chuck77 and Portillo by any chance?


Not specifically, no.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Straggler, posted 06-06-2011 10:05 AM Straggler has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by Straggler, posted 06-06-2011 5:39 PM Panda has responded

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 2826 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 6 of 89 (618816)
06-06-2011 12:47 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Theodoric
06-06-2011 11:18 AM


Theodoric writes:

Unenforceable and this site already panders to the creo side.

If they make an argument that can be refuted then any member should feel free to post. I do think it is important not to harp on the same thing someone else already has. But many of the ramblings of the newer members have many avenues by which they can be refuted.

I agree with your sentiment, but feel the limitations imposed would be to great. Also, this would empower an even lower class of poster than we are seeing now.

I think the vast majority of us have been dogpiled in the past. We made it through. If they don't have the stones for it then this is not the place for them. I think the dogpiling helps separate the wheat from the chaff. Aaron is still posting.


Why do you think it is unenforceable?
And I am not suggesting that we pander to any particular side, I am suggesting that we 'pander' to new members.

I do agree that some people can make a single post with many, many errors, but I am concerned that swamping the poster with criticisms is counter-productive.
I also do not think that having 'stones' should be a requirement to post on this site. I think that being able to learn is a far more important attribute. But dog-piling can put people's defences up and discourage them from learning.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Theodoric, posted 06-06-2011 11:18 AM Theodoric has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by Theodoric, posted 06-06-2011 1:42 PM Panda has acknowledged this reply
 Message 10 by DBlevins, posted 06-06-2011 1:51 PM Panda has acknowledged this reply

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 2826 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 7 of 89 (618817)
06-06-2011 12:50 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by purpledawn
06-06-2011 12:08 PM


Re: Same Old Responses
purpledawn writes:

Unfortunately we found out in another thread that common courtesy isn't necessarily on everyone's to-do list.

IMO, just because we survived it, doesn't mean we have to dish it out.


I do not understand the point you are trying to make.

Can you re-phrase please?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by purpledawn, posted 06-06-2011 12:08 PM purpledawn has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by purpledawn, posted 06-06-2011 1:35 PM Panda has responded

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 2571 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 8 of 89 (618821)
06-06-2011 1:35 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Panda
06-06-2011 12:50 PM


Re: Same Old Responses
Just because someone gets dog piled when they were a new member doesn't mean they have to return the favor.

Edited by purpledawn, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Panda, posted 06-06-2011 12:50 PM Panda has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by Panda, posted 06-06-2011 3:53 PM purpledawn has responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7148
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 9 of 89 (618823)
06-06-2011 1:42 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Panda
06-06-2011 12:47 PM


Why do you think it is unenforceable?

Maybe it is enforceable but it cannot be enforced fairly.
What if someone has a response that is POTM worthy, but two other people already replied? Do we leave it to the admins to decide which posts stay? Do they delete everything after the first two?

I am suggesting that we 'pander' to new members.

I think this is a bad idea. It will just encourage the type of poster that adds nothing to the discourse.

I also do not think that having 'stones' should be a requirement to post on this site.

If a person is unwilling or unable to adequately defend their posts then maybe they should reconsider posting initially. If there is dogpiling the person should have the wherewithal to look at their initial post and figure out why no one agrees with them.

I think that being able to learn is a far more important attribute. But dog-piling can put people's defences up and discourage them from learning.

That is their issue. I do not think the person we are talking about is going to be more likely to learn if they only have 2 responses. Rather I think limiting responses to 2 will reinforce their thinking. If a person gets defensive because they receive lots of criticism then they are probably not very open to learning in the first place.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Panda, posted 06-06-2011 12:47 PM Panda has acknowledged this reply

  
DBlevins
Member (Idle past 2889 days)
Posts: 652
From: Puyallup, WA.
Joined: 02-04-2003


Message 10 of 89 (618824)
06-06-2011 1:51 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Panda
06-06-2011 12:47 PM


IIRC, though I might be confusing this site with another forum, there was asuggestion (or a brief moment) when new posters were restricted in the topics that they could post to, and included not being able to post new topics (or some such restrictions). Things changed and the 'suggested topics' topic arose. (Don't quote me on this, as my memory of how things were is probably corrupted by all the other forums I visit.)

The point is, that while the site admins have recognized the 'dog piling' that occurs, there is not much that I believe can be done besides a marked increase in moderation, and that itself leads to the inevitable charges of bias or poster discontent. Besides self-moderation, in an attempt to limit the 'dog-piling' (which keeps me out of many debates I would love to join or even continue), I am not sure what else could realistically be done. The fact is that scientific debate can be this way, even among 'professionals'.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Panda, posted 06-06-2011 12:47 PM Panda has acknowledged this reply

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 2826 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 11 of 89 (618835)
06-06-2011 3:53 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by purpledawn
06-06-2011 1:35 PM


Re: Same Old Responses
purpledawn writes:

Just because someone gets dog piled when they were a new member doesn't mean they have to return the favor.


I agree with the principle you have stated, but both of your replies seem not to be replies to my post.

It appears that you are accusing me of dog-piling others as some kind of petty revenge due to me being dog-piled when I was a new member?
This seems far removed from the altruistic suggestion I have made.

*shrug*

Well, no-one else seems to think my suggestion is viable, so I will leave it as food for thought.

Edited by Panda, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by purpledawn, posted 06-06-2011 1:35 PM purpledawn has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by GDR, posted 06-06-2011 4:37 PM Panda has responded
 Message 13 by purpledawn, posted 06-06-2011 5:00 PM Panda has responded

  
GDR
Member (Idle past 66 days)
Posts: 5410
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005


Message 12 of 89 (618843)
06-06-2011 4:37 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Panda
06-06-2011 3:53 PM


Re: Same Old Responses
There is no law that says you have to reply to every post. Personally I leave out the difficult ones.


Everybody is entitled to my opinion. :)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Panda, posted 06-06-2011 3:53 PM Panda has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by Panda, posted 06-06-2011 5:26 PM GDR has not yet responded

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 2571 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 13 of 89 (618846)
06-06-2011 5:00 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Panda
06-06-2011 3:53 PM


Re: Same Old Responses
Good grief. I'm agreeing with you that dog piling can scare people off and then added my own thoughts concerning other comments that have surfaced in this thread and other discussion besides my own experiences. It has nothing to do with you. We are talking about dog piling.

There's no accusation.

This is a suggestion and questions thread, not a debate thread.

People (not you) that don't like moderation or don't ever see that they are doing something rude will blow a gasket no matter what we do.

Not everyone practices common courtesy in all situations. (Still not talking about you.)

Basically if the newbie feels overwhelmed or is harassed for not responding, then they need to call an Admin.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Panda, posted 06-06-2011 3:53 PM Panda has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by Panda, posted 06-06-2011 5:24 PM purpledawn has acknowledged this reply
 Message 26 by RAZD, posted 06-10-2011 8:11 AM purpledawn has not yet responded

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 2826 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 14 of 89 (618848)
06-06-2011 5:24 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by purpledawn
06-06-2011 5:00 PM


Re: Same Old Responses
purpledawn writes:

There's no accusation.

Ah..ok.

I was not offended - just confused.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by purpledawn, posted 06-06-2011 5:00 PM purpledawn has acknowledged this reply

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 2826 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 15 of 89 (618850)
06-06-2011 5:26 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by GDR
06-06-2011 4:37 PM


Re: Same Old Responses
GDR writes:

There is no law that says you have to reply to every post. Personally I leave out the difficult ones.


There are certain threads where I don't understand the question, and the answers make even less sense...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by GDR, posted 06-06-2011 4:37 PM GDR has not yet responded

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2022