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Author Topic:   Dark matter a dying theory?
tesla
Member (Idle past 1619 days)
Posts: 1199
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 70 of 113 (619452)
06-09-2011 7:57 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by Taz
06-09-2011 7:19 PM


Re: Not so fast....
Tesla, no offense, but I am seeing a pattern in your way of thinking. You seem to think that approximation == wild guess. When I say this way of thinking, I'm not just referring to your misconception of approximation. You tend to think of things in a vacuum, meaning you use a small piece of evidence to support your assertion while ignoring the all the other evidence that contradict your assertion.
Science is the tool to understanding the universe we are in. I see all the time how adamant people are about general theories being true because educated people have done some tests and confirmed it.
Now let’s see what is easier, finding confirming connections in two quadratic functions, or finding two points that do not confirm they are the same equation?
It all depends on how you approach the problem. To verify an equation is not the same as another you have to find the points that do not match.
I approach science with an open mind. A lot of 'appearances' can be misleading. That does not mean research has not been productive. It almost always pays off into furthering knowledge. What bugs me is how confident scientist relay very tentative theories to a public that trust them to be relaying facts and are let down. String theory is a good example.
I say as a researcher in material science. What we do isn't just theoretical bullshit. We actually produce real world results and applications for our private funders. Frankly, I'm appalled at how creationists can continue to operate in our capitalist system. They have not produced a single real world result. And yet they continue to get fundings. Boggles the mind.
You are very close minded as a scientist. They are producing real world results; that is why they are funded. If you open your mind you'll discover what those real world results are. Open your mind some more and you'll find answering that question could benefit the whole of the human race and maybe even save it from extinction.
As far as how I post: The way I speak is a figment of your imagination. I am open to discuss anything, but I like to point out flaws in dogmatic responses (or ignore them entirely). It is a common tactic of most who post here that when they see a dogmatic religious response they attack the poster (Dog piling). You might not like me saying things; like: that’s just an approximation or Nothing is proven by that, the observation is as tentative as the interpretation of what was observed But given your level of education you know them to be true.
Edited by tesla, : spacing

keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by Taz, posted 06-09-2011 7:19 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 72 by Taz, posted 06-09-2011 9:22 PM tesla has replied

  
tesla
Member (Idle past 1619 days)
Posts: 1199
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 71 of 113 (619453)
06-09-2011 8:03 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by Taz
06-09-2011 7:29 PM


Re: Not so fast....
You still don't understand the meaning behind the term "dark matter". It's a place holder for what we don't know. It doesn't refer to any specific thing.
Oh ok, thanks for clearing that up. So I can now say: Dark Matter is the name given to whatever explains why the mass of the universe is not adding up to scientific calculations.
edit:
So, earlier today I attended my friend's wife's Ph.D. dissertation for organic chemistry. It was quite a humbling opinion, because after the first 5 minutes everything just shot 2 miles over my head. I was really trying to keep up with what the hell she was talking about. But damn! I was scratching my head the whole way through. Her husband, my friend, also a material science engineer, reassured me that he also had no idea what the hell she was talking about.
The point is astrophysicists have good reasons to postulate the existence of dark matter. Fritz Szwicky (sp?) was a really really smart guy. Even if us lowly mortals don't understand all the details, it doesn't negate the fact that there are very very good reasons to believe the existence of something that's making up most of the mass of the universe that, for the moment, we can't detect.
Never underestimate your own intelligence. I always try researching if there is something I'm interested in to try and understand all I can. But stay grounded; because you'll run into a lot of crackpot stuff and believe it if you’re not prone to scrutinizing what your being sold.
Edited by tesla, : edit added.

keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by Taz, posted 06-09-2011 7:29 PM Taz has not replied

  
tesla
Member (Idle past 1619 days)
Posts: 1199
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 73 of 113 (619466)
06-09-2011 9:51 PM
Reply to: Message 72 by Taz
06-09-2011 9:22 PM


Re: Not so fast....
Let's agree we disagree on agreeing for the sake of agreement.
Edited by tesla, : structure
Edited by tesla, : I was just too rude. cleaning up.

keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by Taz, posted 06-09-2011 9:22 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by Taz, posted 06-10-2011 12:41 AM tesla has replied

  
tesla
Member (Idle past 1619 days)
Posts: 1199
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 82 of 113 (619531)
06-10-2011 8:53 AM
Reply to: Message 77 by Taz
06-10-2011 12:41 AM


Re: Not so fast....
The way I interpret this is that you seem to imply there is something wrong with people being adamant about the theories because "educated people" have done some tests.
You misinterpreted. What I'm pointing out is the educated people are approaching the matter with an open mind. Most scientists agree there is a discrepancy that warrants research. But they also know 'invisible matter' is reaching. So many scientists are looking for a better explanation.
I'm pointing out the cause of the phenomenon will more than likely turn out not to be Dark Matter.
The other problem I have with your attitude is that you make it sound like in science all it takes is some dumbass making some dumbass assertion and bam! we have a scientific theory. In order for something to become generally and tentatively accepted in the scientific community, it has to have been through hell and back. I still get the feeling you don't know just how rigorous the whole process is.
I wouldn't bother with science if I did not believe it has an opportunity to explain things. You have to remember where I'm posting at. I’ve been slammed, ignored and misinterpreted (not because what i said could not be identified in its context) but for the sake of one dogmatic position being argued over another.
My ultimate end is to discover truths. Science can only say truths are tentative, while recognizing some are reliably fact. I discriminate the validity of science by personal interpretations of how strong our understanding and perception is [in light of] the given science when making a determination of reliability.
There is, however, something wrong with us putting our trust in people who try to speak authoratively on subjects outside their expertise. An example would be a southern baptist preacher trying to disprove biological evolution by using a bunch of strawman arguments.
There is also something wrong with an evolutionist telling people there isn't a God because the fact that species evolve means there never could have been a design. That [Evolution of species] is potentially a design. When a scientists rules out God on the basis they are an expert in their field of science, how does that make them an expert on God? Of course attacking anyone’s core beliefs will cause peoples blood pressures to rise. Humanity at any age can be immature and say something retarded when angry.
As for 'dumbass' assertions: It does happen all the time. That is why scientist’s assumptions, assertions, and theories go through certain channels before it can be approved for research.
Going back to the topic of this thread, physicists have a very good reason to propose the existence of dark matter. Fritz Swicky, I think, was the first to make the argument. That was back in the 20s and the reasons for the existence of dark matter have not been disproven. So, you can imagine how sure they are that dark matter exists.
That's fine. I reserve the right to not be convinced until further notice.
Edited by tesla, : typing repairs.

keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by Taz, posted 06-10-2011 12:41 AM Taz has not replied

  
tesla
Member (Idle past 1619 days)
Posts: 1199
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 83 of 113 (619533)
06-10-2011 8:57 AM
Reply to: Message 78 by Taz
06-10-2011 12:48 AM


Because most creationists believe God, heaven, and angels are forever out of reach of mankind unless the contact comes from God to mankind, not Mankind to God.

keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by Taz, posted 06-10-2011 12:48 AM Taz has not replied

  
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