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Author Topic:   My HUGE problem with creationist thinking (re: Which version of creationism)
Acalepha
Junior Member (Idle past 3083 days)
Posts: 25
Joined: 06-08-2011


(1)
Message 1 of 336 (619146)
06-08-2011 12:49 PM


Hi All!

The theory of evolution is based entirely on empirical observation. In this way, evolution, is an objective explanation of why life is the way that it is.

There are, however, many different theories of creation. The Christian religion has their belief which is different from the Muslim belief which is different from the North American First Nation's beliefs and so on and so on.

If creation is to be taught in the education system, whose version of creation should be taught? You certainly cannot teach ALL the thousands of different versions as truth. The very nature of teaching creation implies that there is only one version of creation.

If you teach one version of creation over a different version of creation, is this not racist? Who decides whose culture is valid and whose is invalid?

kind regards,

Acalepha

Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Added the "(re: Which version of creationism)" to topic title.


Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Admin, posted 06-08-2011 1:24 PM Acalepha has responded
 Message 5 by fearandloathing, posted 06-08-2011 7:16 PM Acalepha has responded
 Message 6 by dwise1, posted 06-08-2011 8:22 PM Acalepha has responded
 Message 7 by Taz, posted 06-08-2011 8:57 PM Acalepha has responded
 Message 10 by NoNukes, posted 06-09-2011 7:46 AM Acalepha has responded
 Message 11 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-09-2011 10:52 AM Acalepha has responded
 Message 59 by Buzsaw, posted 06-10-2011 8:10 PM Acalepha has not yet responded
 Message 126 by Happy Forever, posted 09-28-2011 7:52 AM Acalepha has not yet responded
 Message 130 by Hawkins, posted 10-14-2011 10:46 PM Acalepha has not yet responded

Acalepha
Junior Member (Idle past 3083 days)
Posts: 25
Joined: 06-08-2011


Message 3 of 336 (619148)
06-08-2011 2:15 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Admin
06-08-2011 1:24 PM


Hello esteemed director
The reason I chose the graphic of the DNA molecule was because I felt it represented the idea of the gene and evolution. It was also a pretty picture. I respectfully disagree with your opinion that the graphic was not relevant to my post.

kind regards

Acalepha


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Admin, posted 06-08-2011 1:24 PM Admin has acknowledged this reply

Acalepha
Junior Member (Idle past 3083 days)
Posts: 25
Joined: 06-08-2011


Message 12 of 336 (619330)
06-09-2011 1:54 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by fearandloathing
06-08-2011 7:16 PM


Call it what you will...
The end result is that you are picking the belief system of one ethnic group over the belief system of another. Is it right to subordinate the myths and values of one people over another group? This type of prejudice preceeds brainwashing as it asks the citizen to ignore their set of beliefs for one that is fed to them as "truth".

kind regards,

Acalepha


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by fearandloathing, posted 06-08-2011 7:16 PM fearandloathing has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by fearandloathing, posted 06-09-2011 2:07 PM Acalepha has responded
 Message 90 by Mazzy, posted 06-12-2011 9:23 PM Acalepha has not yet responded

Acalepha
Junior Member (Idle past 3083 days)
Posts: 25
Joined: 06-08-2011


Message 13 of 336 (619331)
06-09-2011 1:58 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by dwise1
06-08-2011 8:22 PM


thank you for your reply
America is a secular nation. When the religious beliefs of any particular group start determining the governing practices of the United States, then America will cease to be the land of the free and become a fundamentalist religious state like Iran or Saudi Arabia.

kind regards,

Acalepha


This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by dwise1, posted 06-08-2011 8:22 PM dwise1 has not yet responded

Acalepha
Junior Member (Idle past 3083 days)
Posts: 25
Joined: 06-08-2011


Message 14 of 336 (619334)
06-09-2011 2:05 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Taz
06-08-2011 8:57 PM


Dear Taz
1.If the United States is a christian nation, why are other religions and viewpoints allowed within her borders?

2.Do you support the imprisonment or conversion of those people who do not have Christian beliefs as their spirituality?

3.Should the laws of the United States reflect the contents of the bible and the values of the Christian church?

4.What should be done to people who transgress the laws espoused in the bible?

5.If the constitution of the United States of America contradicts the content of the bible, which set of beliefs should one follow?

I am very interested to hear of your responses to my question Taz. I promise to answer any question that you have of me to your satisfaction.

kind regards,

Acalepha


This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Taz, posted 06-08-2011 8:57 PM Taz has not yet responded

Acalepha
Junior Member (Idle past 3083 days)
Posts: 25
Joined: 06-08-2011


Message 16 of 336 (619336)
06-09-2011 2:12 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Panda
06-08-2011 9:33 PM


Hi Panda
Well put.

I think that it is very very important to talk to people like Taz and to explain to them the repurcussions of their statements. Taz believes that he/she is right because it is their faith that allows them to survive in his/hers environment.

The problem with empirical thinkers like us, Panda, is that we don't realise why fundamentalism exists in the first place. Taz believes what he/she does because Taz does not have any other tools in their basket to help him/her with the problems in their lives.

It is these issues/problems that we must help Taz with in order to get him/her to abandon the folly of fundamentalist thought.

kind regards,

Acalepha


This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Panda, posted 06-08-2011 9:33 PM Panda has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by Taz, posted 06-09-2011 6:22 PM Acalepha has responded
 Message 57 by Panda, posted 06-10-2011 5:47 PM Acalepha has not yet responded

Acalepha
Junior Member (Idle past 3083 days)
Posts: 25
Joined: 06-08-2011


Message 17 of 336 (619339)
06-09-2011 2:16 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by NoNukes
06-09-2011 7:46 AM


Your solution is not practical
There are thousands of different creation theories. A summary that best describes them all would go something like this.

The world magically appeared and homo sapiens were created.

The myths and legend of an ethnic group reflect the values of that particular group.

You cannot teach about Genesis without imparting some of the Christian values to the student. This is the same about every other ethnic group that has a creation mythos.

So who decides the values we teach and do not teach?

kind regards,

Acalepha


This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by NoNukes, posted 06-09-2011 7:46 AM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 103 by NoNukes, posted 06-13-2011 10:40 AM Acalepha has not yet responded

Acalepha
Junior Member (Idle past 3083 days)
Posts: 25
Joined: 06-08-2011


Message 18 of 336 (619343)
06-09-2011 2:32 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by New Cat's Eye
06-09-2011 10:52 AM


Dear Catholic Scientist
Thank you for your reply.

Here is my problem.

quote:
Right, so you have to go with a diluted-down vague non-descript version of creation like Intelligent Design.

Ok.

I am all ears.

Please give me a diluted down, vague, non-descript version of Intelligent Design that I can use when teaching my high school biology classes.

I eagerly await your answer.

kind regards,

Acalepha


This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-09-2011 10:52 AM New Cat's Eye has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-09-2011 3:01 PM Acalepha has responded

Acalepha
Junior Member (Idle past 3083 days)
Posts: 25
Joined: 06-08-2011


Message 19 of 336 (619347)
06-09-2011 2:53 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by fearandloathing
06-09-2011 2:07 PM


Ok,, I understand
You use the term racist as only applying to the prejudging of different "racial" groups. I don't believe that "racial" groups exist. I use the term racist in a more general way. I use it to describe the prejudice against someone who belongs to a different ethnic group than your own. Accepting or denying the values of an ethnic group denotes racism for me as it implies the acceptance or rejection of that ethnic group.

thank you for your response

kind regards,

Acalepha


This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by fearandloathing, posted 06-09-2011 2:07 PM fearandloathing has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by NoNukes, posted 06-09-2011 3:16 PM Acalepha has responded
 Message 31 by ZenMonkey, posted 06-09-2011 5:24 PM Acalepha has responded

Acalepha
Junior Member (Idle past 3083 days)
Posts: 25
Joined: 06-08-2011


Message 21 of 336 (619352)
06-09-2011 3:09 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by New Cat's Eye
06-09-2011 3:01 PM


Re: Dear Catholic Scientist
Ok.

Do you see how weak your statement is. On one hand, we have biology that has all this empirical evident to support the theory of evolution and your statement that says "Someone just decided to make everything one day."

Do you think that people like Taz would be okay with your idea of what creation is? I get the impression that Taz likes all the values and stories associated with the creation mythos. Is he okay with giving all that up?

kind regards,

Acalepha


This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-09-2011 3:01 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-09-2011 3:26 PM Acalepha has responded

Acalepha
Junior Member (Idle past 3083 days)
Posts: 25
Joined: 06-08-2011


Message 35 of 336 (619443)
06-09-2011 7:27 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by NoNukes
06-09-2011 3:16 PM


Actually, you are wrong.
The four distinct ethnic groups of old have disappeared long ago. This is mainly because of transportation and the mixing of the various genetic pools of the four groups.

I may look black, for instance, but I have ancestors from France, Africa, Ireland, India, China and Indonesia. (and those are the one that I know about!!)

People, like you, who think that the various "racial" groups exist don't know a thing about genetics. I, on the other hand, teach genetics and know better.

I appreciate your response. I do agree with you on one point, however. I completely disagree with the use of nuclear power for energy and weapons production.

kind regards,

Acalepha


This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by NoNukes, posted 06-09-2011 3:16 PM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by NoNukes, posted 06-09-2011 10:04 PM Acalepha has responded

Acalepha
Junior Member (Idle past 3083 days)
Posts: 25
Joined: 06-08-2011


Message 36 of 336 (619445)
06-09-2011 7:33 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by New Cat's Eye
06-09-2011 3:26 PM


Re: Dear Catholic Scientist
oh. I am new here. I assume that he was. Thank you for telling me that.

Let us say that I use a "ID" as a explanation for creationism. Am I not substituting a make believe myth for a whole bunch of ethnic one? What ever way you look at it, you are dismissing the cultural beliefs of all the different ethnic groups that espouse them.

That is wrong.

I don't have the right to tell any religious person what to believe as far as their creation mythos is concerned.

And neither do you.

kind regards,

Acalepha


This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-09-2011 3:26 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-10-2011 12:27 PM Acalepha has responded

Acalepha
Junior Member (Idle past 3083 days)
Posts: 25
Joined: 06-08-2011


Message 37 of 336 (619446)
06-09-2011 7:36 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by DBlevins
06-09-2011 3:45 PM


Re: Ok,, I understand
I think that classifying people according to their "racial" group allows for stereotyping, labelling and control of that group.

great point. I can tell we are going to be friends.

kind regards

Acalepha


This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by DBlevins, posted 06-09-2011 3:45 PM DBlevins has not yet responded

Acalepha
Junior Member (Idle past 3083 days)
Posts: 25
Joined: 06-08-2011


Message 38 of 336 (619447)
06-09-2011 7:38 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by fearandloathing
06-09-2011 4:25 PM


nope, he's right
gene's are like eggs.

They've been scrambled and there is no turning back.

kind regards,

Acalepha


This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by fearandloathing, posted 06-09-2011 4:25 PM fearandloathing has acknowledged this reply

Acalepha
Junior Member (Idle past 3083 days)
Posts: 25
Joined: 06-08-2011


Message 39 of 336 (619448)
06-09-2011 7:42 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by New Cat's Eye
06-09-2011 4:27 PM


The nature of science
If you can't cook it, chew on it, of throw it against the wall. It ain't science.

Nice bible stories are just that.

I'll read them to my kids before their bedtime. That's about it. It is certainly not empirical science.

kind regards,

Acalepha


This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-09-2011 4:27 PM New Cat's Eye has acknowledged this reply

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