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Author Topic:   Retarded Law?
tesla
Member (Idle past 1593 days)
Posts: 1199
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 1 of 46 (619238)
06-08-2011 11:50 PM


In order to Get work in my field; I must first have a business number, tax ID, and at the very least an insurance exemption.
The total cost is about $250.00.
But I need work to get the $250.00, and the license and exemption to get work...
Who's idea was this?

keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by frako, posted 06-09-2011 10:39 AM tesla has replied
 Message 8 by subbie, posted 06-09-2011 10:51 AM tesla has seen this message but not replied

  
tesla
Member (Idle past 1593 days)
Posts: 1199
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 9 of 46 (619285)
06-09-2011 11:26 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by frako
06-09-2011 10:39 AM


I'm just a flooring installer that wants to work. I have my van, my tools, and my experiance. But I wasn't making much money while I was in college. I'm out for the summer and they changed the laws.
So in order for me to work, I have to find individuals to work under the table for until I get the license and exemption to be able to work out of legit stores that I am used to working out of.
I go back to school in august, So time is short, money is short, The economy is barley farting, and those who would give me work can't until I can afford the legal set-up.

keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by frako, posted 06-09-2011 10:39 AM frako has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by Percy, posted 06-09-2011 11:32 AM tesla has replied
 Message 13 by hooah212002, posted 06-09-2011 12:13 PM tesla has replied
 Message 23 by misha, posted 06-09-2011 2:12 PM tesla has replied

  
tesla
Member (Idle past 1593 days)
Posts: 1199
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 11 of 46 (619292)
06-09-2011 11:39 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by Percy
06-09-2011 11:32 AM


Sounds like you need a loan, a rather small one. Perhaps you can use your computer as collateral, or pawn it.
This netbook wouldn’t fetch $75. Everyone I know is broke. I do not own much. And $250 right now might as well be $1000 next to what I can sell or borrow.
The van needs brakes an oil change and the bearings are going out in the water pump.
I'm not selling my tools, because I would get pennies out of the cost of them to replace them.
But all that is beside the point. The law is asking $200 just for me to sign a paper saying if I get hurt no one is liable. And that’s what I’m discussing.

keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Percy, posted 06-09-2011 11:32 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by jar, posted 06-09-2011 12:08 PM tesla has seen this message but not replied
 Message 14 by Theodoric, posted 06-09-2011 12:47 PM tesla has replied
 Message 16 by fearandloathing, posted 06-09-2011 12:53 PM tesla has replied

  
tesla
Member (Idle past 1593 days)
Posts: 1199
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 15 of 46 (619315)
06-09-2011 12:48 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by hooah212002
06-09-2011 12:13 PM


I assume you are a private contractor? Being as such, you are your own business, technically. With that, you have to get the necessary requirements that come along with running your own company. Try being an employee somewhere (if you can) so that the company you work for will take care of the logistics.
That's what I'm trying to do now. It's a lot less money but it is what it is. There isn't enough work to go around. I'm working for a man now, but he has only supplied one job this week which only paid $100. He doesn’t have the work either, but he does have ambition.
Tomorrow he says he should have some work, and I'll get paid. The money has to fix the van and get the license to work under his insurance. I'm going to give it another week and if i can't take care of the exemption I'll ask around at church for fast food connections and work fast food. I just hope I make enough to keep my apartment until college starts back and my loans kick in.
What I really wanted to examine was not the disparity of my situation, but rather the laws. These insurance costs are what is keeping many ground floor business’s from getting started. A lot of new business licenses are being bought under the title: new business.
The truth is, any employee I hire has to have the same thing under the same title or the cost is more. So all the new business’s springing up are really old business trying to conform to new regulations. In fact, many have gone out of business because of the laws. Because many working were scraping by before the law change, and there isn't enough money left to live on.
So statistically this state can say there is "small business growth" when the truth is the opposite. There is decline. The state is just making more money in a declining economy by charging existing subcontractors more money to work.

keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by hooah212002, posted 06-09-2011 12:13 PM hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by Taq, posted 06-09-2011 5:38 PM tesla has replied
 Message 33 by Phat, posted 06-10-2011 6:09 AM tesla has replied

  
tesla
Member (Idle past 1593 days)
Posts: 1199
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 17 of 46 (619317)
06-09-2011 12:53 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Theodoric
06-09-2011 12:47 PM


Did I piss in your biscuits or rape you in another life? You don't know me. You don’t know my economic situation, skills, abilities, or connections (or lack of connections).
So piss off.

keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Theodoric, posted 06-09-2011 12:47 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by PsychMJC, posted 06-09-2011 1:22 PM tesla has replied
 Message 21 by Theodoric, posted 06-09-2011 1:34 PM tesla has seen this message but not replied

  
tesla
Member (Idle past 1593 days)
Posts: 1199
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 18 of 46 (619318)
06-09-2011 1:04 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by fearandloathing
06-09-2011 12:53 PM


I wouldn't complain that much, yea it sucks, at least you dont have to carry liability ins, pull permits, get inspections, get a flooring license, and have to go to continuing education to keep it. None of this is cheap when you dont have much work to begin with, but if i want to stay in business I got to do it.
If there was enough money in flooring I wouldn't mind those costs.
I have and do make 100 dollars an hour sometimes and have had weeks in the past that made $2000.00. But they are rare and too far in between. The consistency of work is what is necessary to make those costs viable.
Which is why I am in college. Career decision.
Your young, I think, sell some blood, or maybe try a day labor place if you got one local. Good luck, this economy is hard on a small business owner who is in a construction trades.
I don't like needles, but I will tolerate them. I doubt my blood would pay for the gas to go give it lol, and if it did, what’s left would maybe buy lunch.
I am fairly young. I'm 33. The day labor around here has a crowd every morning. Maybe 10% get to work. And those 10% have been going out there for a while.
I've got some ideas. But I still believe this insurance exemption cost of $200 is robbery.
Not to mention misleading people on the actual state of the economy by showing new business starts that aren’t really ‘new’.

keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by fearandloathing, posted 06-09-2011 12:53 PM fearandloathing has not replied

  
tesla
Member (Idle past 1593 days)
Posts: 1199
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 20 of 46 (619323)
06-09-2011 1:29 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by PsychMJC
06-09-2011 1:22 PM


I am currently looking to hire some outside people to do some work on a property I am picking up, and I wouldn't hire just any old schmo to do the work. Consider it a very, VERY small step to make yourself more credible. It will do wonders.
I have done 85% of all my work through one of the most reputable flooring stores in this town. Credibility is not the issue.
YOU aren't being unfairly targeted by this law, are you?
No. and I'm not the only one who believes it’s just a greedy state that believes there is more money in construction than there actually is for the people who DO the work.

keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by PsychMJC, posted 06-09-2011 1:22 PM PsychMJC has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by PsychMJC, posted 06-09-2011 2:02 PM tesla has seen this message but not replied

  
tesla
Member (Idle past 1593 days)
Posts: 1199
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 24 of 46 (619340)
06-09-2011 2:18 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by misha
06-09-2011 2:12 PM


My advice: find some friends who need odd jobs done around the house, even if its only $20-30 worth. Work on those in the evening. Ten of those and you'll have the money you need for the license. I'd offer someone $40 to clean and organize my stuff in the basement. Its probably only 2 hours work. That would get you 1/6 the way there.
I'd take that job in a minute =)
If I wasn't in college I would have been working and had the money to get what I needed to continue to work. Being a student sucks when it comes to finding a job. I will not turn down work I'm capable of doing.
If worse comes to worse I'll live in the van again. It's summer at least. Thanks for your suggestions =)
edit: Even if I had the license and exemption right now; the stores are all slow. It's cutthroat, and the owner of the store has to take care of installers that are going to be remaining with them first.
Edited by tesla, : No reason given.

keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by misha, posted 06-09-2011 2:12 PM misha has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-09-2011 3:28 PM tesla has replied
 Message 27 by frako, posted 06-09-2011 6:16 PM tesla has replied

  
tesla
Member (Idle past 1593 days)
Posts: 1199
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 28 of 46 (619425)
06-09-2011 6:24 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by New Cat's Eye
06-09-2011 3:28 PM


Just go begging for work from your friends. (you do have those, don't you?)
I continue to try all avenues. It's tough for everyone right now.

keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-09-2011 3:28 PM New Cat's Eye has seen this message but not replied

  
tesla
Member (Idle past 1593 days)
Posts: 1199
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 30 of 46 (619428)
06-09-2011 6:31 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by Taq
06-09-2011 5:38 PM


To be quite frank, 250 bucks isn't that much. Imagine if you tearing out an old floor and accidently tear up some plumbing. Then what? I'm guessing it would be more than 250 bucks to fix.
I’ve never run into any issues like that. Mistakes in flooring can be very expensive. I don't rush my work and save time not having issues. That was one reason I would reap a lot of tips.
$250 is not much by itself. But $250 on top of van repairs, rent, electricity and water, and a three week deadline; can be a problem. (Not impossible though.)
Especially when the $250 is not going to guarantee work, just open the door for the store to pass me jobs when they are available (outside of their regular main installers who are not in college)

keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by Taq, posted 06-09-2011 5:38 PM Taq has not replied

  
tesla
Member (Idle past 1593 days)
Posts: 1199
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 31 of 46 (619431)
06-09-2011 6:37 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by frako
06-09-2011 6:16 PM


Lol if you need the money that bad fly down to Slovenia tomorrow i should be getting 30 000 EUR sometime tomorrow i can spare the 180 EUR for someone down on his luck might tip the balance one day by the man upstairs
Awe Thanks for the offer my friend, but life will work out for me one way or the other. In august my loans will come in, and I'll have the funds to succeed at my studies. And that is my priority.
Or i can do what some dude taught up somewhere in Poland i believe he hands out small lones up to 500EUR as guarantee you pawn your soul to him.
Really? Will he mail a check? As long as he doesn’t get my soul until after this body dies he can buy it as many times as he wants.

keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by frako, posted 06-09-2011 6:16 PM frako has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by frako, posted 06-10-2011 5:41 AM tesla has replied

  
tesla
Member (Idle past 1593 days)
Posts: 1199
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 34 of 46 (619535)
06-10-2011 9:05 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by frako
06-10-2011 5:41 AM


lol

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by frako, posted 06-10-2011 5:41 AM frako has not replied

  
tesla
Member (Idle past 1593 days)
Posts: 1199
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 35 of 46 (619536)
06-10-2011 9:18 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by Phat
06-10-2011 6:09 AM


Re: There isn't enough work to go around.
From one professional whiner to another, let me point out that were it not for licensing, anyone could hang out a shingle and claim to represent the skill level of the work that you do. The overall value of your services would drop, as many of these people would do shoddier work and charge far less.
That still happens here. Many people ask friends who did their work and look for installers separate from legit companies. The work is generally shoddier, but a lot cheaper too. That’s one reason why the stores are slower here than they could be. The stores hire good installers, and have had to cut prices to be competitive in that market.
The stores make money off the material while an installer will only make money off the jobs. a lot of supply costs have went up too. Because anyone you hire has to have either the exemption or you as an installer must have workman’s comp to cover a worker at a minimum of $10,000.
More and more installers are doing 'side work' or going directly to the consumers. I understand why they are doing what they are doing; I believe that the exemption cost is too high for the true profit being produced in this economy.
The insurance laws here are protecting consumers from liability if someone gets hurt. But a piece of paper you sign saying no one is liable should not cost $200 for every worker.
Global competition wont end, unfortunately. Find a way to get licensed and registered and bonded and all of those necessary steps. This will allow you to advertise these reassurances to your potential clients. Hopefully we can get our economies up and running again, but we all are having to work harder at doing so.
I'll be fine after college. I just have to survive until then. The easiest way for me to make money and for my resume after college to look better is to remain self-employed. But if I must take work in fast food or something else I will.

keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Phat, posted 06-10-2011 6:09 AM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by crashfrog, posted 06-10-2011 1:49 PM tesla has replied

  
tesla
Member (Idle past 1593 days)
Posts: 1199
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 37 of 46 (619586)
06-10-2011 1:56 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by crashfrog
06-10-2011 1:49 PM


Re: There isn't enough work to go around.
"Regulatory capture" is what this is called, and you know you're looking at a regulatory capture situation where the rationale offered is one of public safety, but current established businesses are being grandfathered in.
I believe this is more of a consequence. In my opinion the real reason for the licensing is revenue for the region. Similar to federal tax ID's to keep up with who is making what money and what is owed in taxes.
So to me, businesses that do not try to fight excessive costs in licensing are lucrative enough to enjoy the extra protection from competition.
In this case, when TN tried to pass the workman’s comp law it failed, as stores fought it. But insurance agencies took matters into their own hands denying insurance to companies who do not require workers not covered by the company to have workman’s comp insurance.
It's just a money fight that’s all. Greed and politics.

keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by crashfrog, posted 06-10-2011 1:49 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by crashfrog, posted 06-10-2011 2:14 PM tesla has replied

  
tesla
Member (Idle past 1593 days)
Posts: 1199
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 39 of 46 (619596)
06-10-2011 2:30 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by crashfrog
06-10-2011 2:14 PM


Re: There isn't enough work to go around.
Certainly the revenue is how they sell the deal to legislators, but nobody's state is getting rich off of $250 business licensing.
It could generate quite a bit when every hired hand must pay the $200. $200 of the $250 is for a workman's comp exemption.
The $50 is for licensing under a federal tax ID for city and county. (Which I consider affordable and necessary)
I'm used to working people who really need to work and use them as go-fers, clean-up, and muscle for moving furniture and material. They generally can't afford the cost; I can't pay it for them.
The answer most Installers in this area have come up with is: licensing and exemptions for themselves and a partner or long time worker, and the rest of the help they hire is paid cash and simply "does not exist".
So: one 4-man crew is $800 to the state if everyone complies. And there are a lot of construction workers in Clarksville TN.
You need a federal tax ID to pay federal taxes, and if you're going to set up the business as a distinct legal and tax entity from your personal income - which is the point of that kind of business - then obviously you need a distinct tax identifier so your business can pay state and federal taxes.
I agree with that. The cost is also minimal.
Edited by tesla, : math error.

keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by crashfrog, posted 06-10-2011 2:14 PM crashfrog has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by Taz, posted 06-10-2011 2:50 PM tesla has replied

  
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