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Author Topic:   Information's role in evolution.Should we put it more in the picture?
zi ko
Member (Idle past 1782 days)
Posts: 578
Joined: 01-18-2011


Message 166 of 192 (626594)
07-30-2011 9:41 AM
Reply to: Message 164 by Panda
07-30-2011 12:25 AM


Re: Empathy is a type of information
"SCIENCE NEWS
DNA Repair Under Stress
Evolution News & Views June 27, 2011 6:00 AM | Permalink
DNA repair mechanisms are a re-occurring topic here at Evolution, News, and Views because scientists are constantly uncovering layers of complexity and integration within the DNA repair system that seem to defy any notions of having developed by a random, step-by-step process. DNA repair systems behave as if a command center has notified the cell of damage to DNA, and then the cell dispatches the appropriate units for the particular job at a particular location. So not only is the "double strand" team or the "nucleotide replacement" team dispatched when needed, but the team that would be the most efficient job for the particular cause of damage is dispatched. Another way to think of it is a basketball coach who knows exactly what player to put in not only for a particular play, but against a particular opponent"

If this is the case and empathy as it is known transfers mainly stress, is it dificult to understand the importance of empathy to evolution?

Edited by zi ko, : No reason given.


Information: It is time its undeservedly neglectet powerful role to evolution to be restored.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 164 by Panda, posted 07-30-2011 12:25 AM Panda has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 167 by Panda, posted 07-30-2011 10:26 AM zi ko has responded
 Message 168 by Larni, posted 07-30-2011 10:43 AM zi ko has not yet responded

    
Panda
Member (Idle past 1875 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


(1)
Message 167 of 192 (626600)
07-30-2011 10:26 AM
Reply to: Message 166 by zi ko
07-30-2011 9:41 AM


Re: Empathy is a type of information
Thanks for the copy+paste about DNA repair.
I am sure that you feel it is relevant to reproduction and inheritance, but that is not apparent from the article you quoted.
Anyway: back to the question I am having to repeat...

Please explain why we should not be investigating the other unevidenced forms of information transfer (e.g. loneliness, beauty and concentration), which I proposed in the post you are replying to.

zi ko writes:

empathy as it is known transfers mainly stress


Empathy, as it is known by me, transfers all emotions - and stress is only a small part of that wide spectrum of feelings.
Can you explain why you think that empathy transfers mainly stress.

Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

Edited by Panda, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 166 by zi ko, posted 07-30-2011 9:41 AM zi ko has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 170 by zi ko, posted 07-31-2011 3:54 PM Panda has responded

  
Larni
Member
Posts: 3976
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 168 of 192 (626602)
07-30-2011 10:43 AM
Reply to: Message 166 by zi ko
07-30-2011 9:41 AM


Empathy is a type of information in two threads, apparently.
Did you just paste the same quote in two threads?

For shame, zi ko, for shame.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 166 by zi ko, posted 07-30-2011 9:41 AM zi ko has not yet responded

    
shadow71
Member (Idle past 1096 days)
Posts: 706
From: Joliet, il, USA
Joined: 08-31-2010


Message 169 of 192 (626812)
07-31-2011 1:21 PM
Reply to: Message 144 by Taq
07-27-2011 8:36 PM


Re: I need clear answers
Taq writes:


The way I picture it, I could help clarify any questions you have as it relates to the methods and results sections. Before we can have any fruitful discussion you need to understand what each of the figures/tables are saying and how the authors got that data.

Hi Taq. I have read and reread the "Materials and Methods" section and the "Results" section and I am not really going to discuss those sections with you.
In my opinion I would need at least a Bachelors degree in biolog to intelligently discuss those sectons and most likely a Doctorate.

I do believe I can talk about the Abstract and Discusion sections where the authors set forth what they believe the work they have done demonstrates.
I can also discuss what I interpret those opinions to mean for the theory of evolution.
Sorry.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 144 by Taq, posted 07-27-2011 8:36 PM Taq has responded

Replies to this message:
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zi ko
Member (Idle past 1782 days)
Posts: 578
Joined: 01-18-2011


Message 170 of 192 (626838)
07-31-2011 3:54 PM
Reply to: Message 167 by Panda
07-30-2011 10:26 AM


Re: Empathy is a type of information
I am talking about animal empathy role in helping them in their strugle to survive. Animals not bother so much about beuty, loneliness or concentration. This type of information does not relate as directly to survival as loss of food, danger, theatening physical environmental changes. This is the main type of information which is transferred to genome.

Edited by zi ko, : No reason given.


Information: It is time its undeservedly neglectet powerful role to evolution to be restored.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 167 by Panda, posted 07-30-2011 10:26 AM Panda has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 171 by Larni, posted 07-31-2011 4:18 PM zi ko has responded
 Message 172 by Panda, posted 07-31-2011 7:08 PM zi ko has responded

    
Larni
Member
Posts: 3976
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 171 of 192 (626849)
07-31-2011 4:18 PM
Reply to: Message 170 by zi ko
07-31-2011 3:54 PM


Re: Empathy is a type of information
No information is transferred to the genome by empathy. As most animals do not have theory of mind there is a very strong argument that most animals do not experience empathy.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 170 by zi ko, posted 07-31-2011 3:54 PM zi ko has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 174 by zi ko, posted 08-01-2011 12:02 AM Larni has responded

    
Panda
Member (Idle past 1875 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 172 of 192 (626891)
07-31-2011 7:08 PM
Reply to: Message 170 by zi ko
07-31-2011 3:54 PM


Re: Empathy is a type of information
zi ko writes:

Animals not bother so much about beuty, loneliness or concentration.


Clearly you have never looked after an animal.
Loneliness adversely affects many many animals.

But don't worry - I realise that you don't have a clue what you are talking about.

Edited by Panda, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 170 by zi ko, posted 07-31-2011 3:54 PM zi ko has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 173 by zi ko, posted 07-31-2011 11:51 PM Panda has not yet responded

  
zi ko
Member (Idle past 1782 days)
Posts: 578
Joined: 01-18-2011


Message 173 of 192 (626949)
07-31-2011 11:51 PM
Reply to: Message 172 by Panda
07-31-2011 7:08 PM


Re: Empathy is a type of information
Loneliness adversely affects many many animals.

This remark shows how much you have misunderstood me.
Empathy is a hard wired mechanism in neural system. It can transfer any information animal itself feels necessary and mainly what it useful for his survival. It it isn't for us to decide what this information will it be. It could be loneniless.


Information: It is time its undeservedly neglectet powerful role to evolution to be restored.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 172 by Panda, posted 07-31-2011 7:08 PM Panda has not yet responded

    
zi ko
Member (Idle past 1782 days)
Posts: 578
Joined: 01-18-2011


Message 174 of 192 (626951)
08-01-2011 12:02 AM
Reply to: Message 171 by Larni
07-31-2011 4:18 PM


Re: About empathy
As most animals do not have theory of mind there is a very strong argument that most animals do not experience empathy.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As it is just an argument we can continue our conversation. Don't forget that empathy is a hard wired mechanism in neural system. And as you know this must mean something, as nature doesn't make useless things.

Information: It is time its undeservedly neglectet powerful role to evolution to be restored.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 171 by Larni, posted 07-31-2011 4:18 PM Larni has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 175 by Larni, posted 08-01-2011 3:52 AM zi ko has responded

    
Larni
Member
Posts: 3976
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 175 of 192 (626969)
08-01-2011 3:52 AM
Reply to: Message 174 by zi ko
08-01-2011 12:02 AM


Re: About empathy
If you do not have a theory of mind you cannot by definition experience empathy.

This is basic stuff any psychology undergraduate knows.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 174 by zi ko, posted 08-01-2011 12:02 AM zi ko has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 176 by zi ko, posted 08-01-2011 9:24 AM Larni has responded

    
zi ko
Member (Idle past 1782 days)
Posts: 578
Joined: 01-18-2011


Message 176 of 192 (626996)
08-01-2011 9:24 AM
Reply to: Message 175 by Larni
08-01-2011 3:52 AM


Re: About empathy
The rodents of Frans DE WAAL do they have theory of nind?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 175 by Larni, posted 08-01-2011 3:52 AM Larni has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 177 by Admin, posted 08-01-2011 9:54 AM zi ko has not yet responded
 Message 178 by Wounded King, posted 08-01-2011 10:08 AM zi ko has responded
 Message 179 by Larni, posted 08-01-2011 10:30 AM zi ko has responded

    
Admin
Director
Posts: 12600
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 177 of 192 (627188)
08-01-2011 9:54 AM
Reply to: Message 176 by zi ko
08-01-2011 9:24 AM


No More Empathy
Hi Zi Ko,

I think that's enough about empathy in this thread. This thread is about information's role in evolution, and you've been given ample opportunity to define information and explain how it is related to empathy. If you'd like to discuss empathy further, please take it to your Free For All thread, New theory about evolution between creationism and evolution..


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 176 by zi ko, posted 08-01-2011 9:24 AM zi ko has not yet responded

    
Wounded King
Member (Idle past 2257 days)
Posts: 4149
From: Edinburgh, Scotland
Joined: 04-09-2003


Message 178 of 192 (627193)
08-01-2011 10:08 AM
Reply to: Message 176 by zi ko
08-01-2011 9:24 AM


Re: About empathy
Oh great, another scientist co-opted in place of making a coherent argument of your own.

Could you maybe be a bit more specific about what rodent research you are attributing to Frans De waal? Most of his more recent research has been in primates.

TTFN,

WK


This message is a reply to:
 Message 176 by zi ko, posted 08-01-2011 9:24 AM zi ko has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 182 by zi ko, posted 08-01-2011 12:06 PM Wounded King has not yet responded

    
Larni
Member
Posts: 3976
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 179 of 192 (627196)
08-01-2011 10:30 AM
Reply to: Message 176 by zi ko
08-01-2011 9:24 AM


Re: About empathy
The rodents of Frans DE WAAL do they have theory of nind?

No.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 176 by zi ko, posted 08-01-2011 9:24 AM zi ko has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 188 by zi ko, posted 08-07-2011 5:07 AM Larni has responded

    
Taq
Member
Posts: 7864
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.3


Message 180 of 192 (627200)
08-01-2011 11:16 AM
Reply to: Message 162 by zi ko
07-30-2011 12:02 AM


Re: Empathy is a type of information
Empathy as atype of information has the same mechanism on affecting genome as other information staff does, as Shapiro has shown.

So please describe this mechanism and how information is involved.

Edited by Taq, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 162 by zi ko, posted 07-30-2011 12:02 AM zi ko has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 184 by zi ko, posted 08-01-2011 10:47 PM Taq has responded

  
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