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Author | Topic: The Awesome Republican Primary Thread | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Diomedes Member Posts: 995 From: Central Florida, USA Joined:
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Government shutdowns are not liked by 2 groups. 1.) people who suck a living off the work of others through taxes. 2.) Authoritarian Socialist Pigs who have a "better" plan for your life than you do, and use government to enforce it upon you. So I am curious: which category do you place veterans in? I guess that would be option 1?
Productive people would only notice a government shutdown if during one, taxes were no longer collected. Or they notice when they attempt to visit a national park, renew a passport or attempt to collect social security in retirement. By the way, considering the Right Wing is the one most likely to 'force' medical procedures on women, like transvaginal ultrasounds or tell couples who they are allowed to marry, are they also 'Authoritarian Socialist Pigs'?
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Diomedes Member Posts: 995 From: Central Florida, USA Joined: |
It's their own fault for starting up the Tea Party movement to rally up the dummies into voting with non-sense propaganda. Now that movement is out of control and the sensible people in their party (The Romney Republicans vs the Palin Republicans) can't stop it. Exactly. Which anyone with any sense would have been able to realize up front. When you create a monster, you should not be too surprised when it turns on you.
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Diomedes Member Posts: 995 From: Central Florida, USA Joined: |
Bravo yenmor. I would have clicked a hundred times on the 'Cheers' button if the system allowed me to do it. :-)
One thing I would also go one further on is the Tea Party's unrelenting hatred of 'progressives' and 'liberals'. You will often see Tea Party pundits scream buzz words like 'socialism', 'liberalism', 'communism', and yes, even 'nazism' when describing the so-called 'left'. Yet they actually have no idea what these words even mean or how they precisely apply in this circumstance. They are just parroting Glenn Beck or Rush Limbaugh but like any parrot, they can repeat the words but not fully grasp their meaning. While this has been a core aspect of the right's views over the years, it has become even more frequently used during Obama's tenure. And once again, a nice smokescreen for the bitter resentment that a black man is in public office.
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Diomedes Member Posts: 995 From: Central Florida, USA Joined: |
Rahvin writes: It's important to note that many people can find charismatically insane people like Beck and Limbaugh convincing even as they lie, without actually being racist. You don't need to be racist to believe a lie, even if the liar is himself a racist Granted. However, this rhetoric is not confined to the likes of Beck and Limbaugh. It permeates the party representatives themselves in the statements of people like Cruz, Gohmert, Bachmann, and so forth. That is what makes it so blatant at this stage. Cruz invokes Nazis in his filibuster in deference to the health care law, saying they tried 'appeasement' to placate to Hitler and that didn't work out so well. Gohmert invokes fear with his 'terror babies' remarks which is essentially creating a strawman to justify his dislike of Hispanics. And Bachmann is so utterly batshit, that we are probably suffering a worldwide guano shortage at this time. The ignorance is not only overly prevalent at this point, it is actually a quality that is being admired by the far right. While this had its origins in the 80s, it has come to a head the moment a black man has taken office. How many Tea Party folks often have signs that state 'Take America Back' or 'I want my America Back'. What drives this hatred and outrage but racism? Were they making similar statements during the Clinton years? Finally, if being fiscally conservative is the main predicate of their movement, than why are SO many Tea Party supporters completely ignorant of the actual state of their own taxes? As yenmor indicated, all this false outrage is little more than a mask to hide their true motives.
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Diomedes Member Posts: 995 From: Central Florida, USA Joined:
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Not a single thing in that paragraph actually provides evidence of racism And you would not expect it to. Was that not the initial point that it is essentially a subterfuge to mask their true motives? None of them (except for a few) will come right out and say it.
And as I replied to yenmor, this is evidence of ignorance, of being misled, of stupidity. You can't jump from "false argument about state of Federal budget and taxation" to "OMG RACIST!" That's just a simple non sequitur, no matter how many times you say it I am afraid we will have to agree to disagree. They are ignorant, that is for sure. And one can argue that they are being misled. But the main point is the level of vitriol with no foundation in logic. Something had to initially rile them up to the point of frenzy. The rhetoric is just the affirmation of their view. You may call in hyperbole or a non sequitor, but I don't agree. Consider the birthers, many of whom are also affiliated with the Tea Party. They still continue to defy logic to this day and denounce Obama's presidency as being legitimate. Was it ignorance that led them to that conclusion? Of course not. It was a response to the shock of seeing someone in public office that didn't look like them. So they started to desperately try to find excuses and evidence of it not being true. Once again, their ignorance and stupidity may assist in their delusion, but ultimately, the core of their dislike of the current President has the same roots. It even now has moved into strong dislike for the First Lady. How many times in the history of this country has the First Lady been the target of that much backlash? The left absolutely despised Dubya, but how many times were they chastising Laura when she went on her little pet projects, which all first ladies do? Anyway, not to draw this out much further as I think we have some different conclusions in regards to the Tea Party. While we may disagree on their motives, we can agree that they are absolutely and to the core frackin nuts.
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Diomedes Member Posts: 995 From: Central Florida, USA Joined: |
It's not a matter of agreement, Diomedes. Logical fallacies aren;t based on opinion. You made a logical leap - you said "A, therefore B," when there is no actual direct link between A and B. That's a non sequitur. You did that. If you have a problem with having committed a logical fallacy, the appropriate response is to alter your argument so that it does not make an unjustified leap I am afraid you are misconstruing opinion with statements of fact. Perhaps I did not make myself clear in my initial statements, but I am not making a point of fact in regards to the Tea Party being inherently racist. I am stating my opinion on the matter based on the evidence I have seen to date. The only way I could ultimately prove the premise would be to ascertain the racial views of every single member of the Tea Party and those that claim affiliation with them. That would be inherently not feasible, now would it? If you read my post, I indicated we can agree to disagree. That in an of itself is an admission on my part that I am not making an outright claim that my view is absolutely correct. It is conceding that we have a difference of opinion on a topic that can only clearly be considered subjective. So to clarify, I am not making a statement of fact that the Tea Party's motives are racist. If I presented my opinion in that way, then it was poorly worded on my part. I am merely asserting what I believe their motive to be based on the evidence at hand, but I am in no way stating unequivocally that I am correct.
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Diomedes Member Posts: 995 From: Central Florida, USA Joined: |
I'm sure that the racist overtones of Tea Party groups is just a function of their hatred for all things progressive And I can concede that this is also a possible explanation. It just appears the rhetoric during Obama's tenure has been unusually loud and more prevalent.
If (when) Hillary Clinton is nominated for president, it will quickly flip to a more mysogynistic tone, with digs at her looks & age & shrillness Perhaps. Although I don't think the GOP would be idiotic enough to take such a hardline against a woman. My suspicion is that they could focus on her age, although that could be deemed hypocritical since McCain was older when he ran and Reagan was almost as old. My guess is they will focus on some of the 'scandals' that existed during the early 90s that involved Hillary. Additionally, there will be more than ample sound bites for them to delve into as a means to discredit her. For the record, from a spectators standpoint, I am actually looking forward more to the Republican primary in 2016 than I am to the Democratic one. And not because I think a great candidate will emerge from their ranks. It was just that the 2012 primary was one of the funniest side shows I have seen in my lifetime as it pertains to politics. Can't wait for the sequel: GOP Primary 2016: Dumb and Dumberer
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Diomedes Member Posts: 995 From: Central Florida, USA Joined: |
I call upon all of you to wage a second American nonviolent revolution, to use civil disobedience, and to demand that this president leave town, to get up, to put the Quran down, to get up off his knees, and to figuratively come out with his hands up," said Larry Klayman of Freedom Watch, a conservative political advocacy group.
Of course this is one guy. We cannot and should not tar Ted Cruz and Sarah Palin with thus simply because they were at the rally and did nothing to distance themselves from this nutcase. I did find it somewhat hilarious that Dipshit McFacebook (aka Palin) is standing there with a bullhorn screaming about how using vets for political gain should NOT be tolerated, while standing there with Ted Cruz and a bunch of vets in the background. Oh the irony. :-)
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Diomedes Member Posts: 995 From: Central Florida, USA Joined: |
I understand that veterans want to visit the memorial, but isn't the fact that disable veterans might not get their disability checks a wee bit more important? Why don't these partisans show up in front of Congress and rant about that? Well, we did get this classy fellow standing in front of the White House:
Certainly no implied racism there. :-)
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Diomedes Member Posts: 995 From: Central Florida, USA Joined:
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Strange since I would consider myself part of the Tea Party movement Did you vote for Bush in 2000 and 2004? And if so, can you explain how you reconcile your fiscal conservatism and notions of non-interventionism with Bush's exploding of the deficit, expansion of Medicare and the starting of two unfunded wars?
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Diomedes Member Posts: 995 From: Central Florida, USA Joined: |
Why doesn't the Tea Party put up candidates for election as Tea Party members, but instead run as Republicans? Other posters have provided some feedback on this, but allow me to also chime in: The Tea Party, in its original guise, was a grass roots movement that was usurped by the Republican party after the 2008 election, where the Republicans were handed their butts on a platter. They were desperate to find a way to re-invigorate their base, and the Tea Party provided the perfect foil. The original Tea Party was actually an extension of the folks who opposed the Wall Street bailouts and were, to a large degree, Ron Paul supporters. With the Tea Party enthusiasm, Republicans begin to leverage their outrage and vitriol to make waves and stoke a very anti-Obama style of rhetoric. The Affordable Healthcare Act also added fantastic cannon fodder. SuperPAC money began to fly towards Republican 'Tea Party' candidates and this enthusiasm allowed them to sweep in and take over Congress in 2010. While this mechanism worked well for the gerrymandered Congressional districts, it backfired at the Senate level which is more of a holistic state representation: as a result, they were unable to capture the Senate. Fast forward to 2012; the anti-Obama rhetoric has reached fever pitch. With Republicans glued to Fox News and living in the anti-reality bubble, they were all but CERTAIN they would take back the presidency in 2012, retake the senate, and begin to move forward with their conservative 'agenda'. However, facts and reality had other plans. Obama won in a sweeping victory. The Senate stayed in the hands of the Democrats and Republicans actually lost congressional seats. What this loss actually did was begin to convince the already delusional Tea Party members that the reason they lost was that they were not putting candidates that were conservative enough to the forefront. This shocking disconnect from reality is now beginning to sink into the brains of various SuperPACs and the likes of Republican masterminds like Karl Rove. In essence, the beast has been created, has grown in size, is cognizant of its own power, and is now choosing to defy its master. Ultimately, as long winded as this explanation is, the main reason the Tea Party has not branched off is that they actually consider themselves the 'true' Republicans. Hence terms like 'RINO' (Republican In Name Only) being tossed around. They are now using their influence (and results of gerrymandering) to attempt to 'take back' their Republican party. Its a schism that is becoming more and more difficult to deal with. Sane Republicans (and they do exist, although most may not believe it), are now doing their best at damage control. They know that if the Tea Party keeps pushing to the right and refusing to play compromise politics, their chances of retaking the presidency, the senate or holding onto congress are getting slimmer and slimmer. What you are starting to see now is the big money (Koch brothers, etc) start to distance themselves from the Tea Party members and start looking to back more moderate Republicans. Karl Rove has now started a new Political Action Committee that is going to attempt to undermine the efforts of the Tea Party. How all this will play out, only time will tell. What is fascinating from a political perspective is that for the first time in my working memory, the Democrats are the party of unified thought and purpose and the Republicans are the party of schizophrenia. It actually used to be the other way around. Not that the Dems had that level of craziness, but they had a tendency to bicker more internally. Even Nancy Pelosi commented on that. But at this point, I think they see their end game more clearly on the Dem side. The will have a two term Obama presidency, they have a great potential candidate in Hillary for 2016 and they are looking at a Republican party that is fractured internally. My suspicion is they are going to be far more tactical then they were in the past to maximize their political potential in the coming elections.
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Diomedes Member Posts: 995 From: Central Florida, USA Joined: |
Hillary Clinton/Julian Castro. And then: Cuban Cigars make a comeback. Wouldn't that be the ultimate celebratory F U? Imagine Hillary winning in 2016, a relaxation of the embargo against Cuba, and Dems walking around with stogies celebrating their victory. Hannity's head would probably explode. Incidentally, keep an eye on Cory Booker from New Jersey. I am certain he is being groomed for a potential run at the presidency in years to come.
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Diomedes Member Posts: 995 From: Central Florida, USA Joined: |
LOL the European parliament has its whacoes too. That is true in spades. One only needs to look at my country of heritage, Greece. They now have a political party (Golden Dawn) based off of Nazi propaganda and the old rhetoric of Joseph Goebbels. And this isn't some off-shoot club of crazies living in the mountains: they have 21 seats in parliament!
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Diomedes Member Posts: 995 From: Central Florida, USA Joined: |
p.s. When do we get our 300 million back that we lent you?
We'll have it for you by next Friday. Honest!
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Diomedes Member Posts: 995 From: Central Florida, USA Joined:
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I'm for his removal because he didn't respect the obvious conflict of interest in having oral sex, at work, during work hours, with one of his interns For me, I was more offended by the fact that the President of the United States, one of the most powerful men on the planet, couldn't get better tail than Monica Lewinsky or Paula Jones. Sheesh. At least Kennedy had the decency to bang Marilyn.
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