Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 84 (8913 total)
Current session began: 
Page Loaded: 06-16-2019 8:45 AM
19 online now:
Percy (Admin), RAZD (2 members, 17 visitors)
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: Arnold Wolf
Post Volume:
Total: 853,804 Year: 8,840/19,786 Month: 1,262/2,119 Week: 22/576 Day: 22/50 Hour: 1/3


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
RewPrev1
...
94959697
98
99Next
Author Topic:   The Awesome Republican Primary Thread
Faith
Member
Posts: 31608
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1456 of 1485 (754401)
03-26-2015 11:56 AM
Reply to: Message 1455 by ramoss
03-26-2015 11:52 AM


Re: Ted Cruz has tweeted!
Oh I did spend some time on it a few years ago and thought the evidence for birth in Kenya quite convincing but then dropped it as too futile in the face of all the aggressive opposition to it, but mostly just stopped caring. Then forgot most of the arguments.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1455 by ramoss, posted 03-26-2015 11:52 AM ramoss has not yet responded

    
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16095
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 1457 of 1485 (754406)
03-26-2015 12:10 PM
Reply to: Message 1454 by Faith
03-26-2015 11:50 AM


Re: How It Happened
Uh huh. And there's no problem explaining any of it. We have a "mistake" made in publishing an awfully precise sounding bio, none of which is true

Yes, people make factual errors. You yourself have made two gross errors of fact while discussing this one.

we have a "mistranslation" of a word used by Obama's grandmother who is misunderstood to be saying he was born in that village when she was really only being poetic and metaphorically calling him a "son of" the village

Reference?

and we also have a "slip of the tongue" by Obama himself who said he was born in Kenya but of course didn't really mean to say that. I haven't looked that one up but remember something of the sort occurring.

Oh, great. Now we have to take your word for it. Faith, would even you take your word for it? From the woman who told us that the pamphlet was written by Obama's literary agent, from the woman who told us that the pamphlet was published by Harvard University, we now have "I haven't looked that one up but remember something of the sort occurring". Well, that settles it. What you "seem to remember" is obviously the gold standard for truth.

And we have a birth certificate with some very strange typographical anomalies. Also haven't looked this one up but I think I spent some time on it a few years ago.

You think you spent some time on it? So now, from the woman who told us that the pamphlet was written by Obama's literary agent, from the woman who told us that the pamphlet was published by Harvard University, now she's making claims about a subject when by her own confession she hasn't looked it up and she's not even certain whether she researched it at all.

Faith, I ask again, would you take your word for it? Given that when talking about this subject you have committed gross factual errors, given that you admit that you haven't even been bothered to look it up, and given that you aren't sure if you ever researched it, but if you did it was "some years ago" ... would that be convincing to you? If someone else said that, would you consider that as hard evidence?

Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1454 by Faith, posted 03-26-2015 11:50 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1459 by Faith, posted 03-26-2015 12:56 PM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 19865
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 1458 of 1485 (754411)
03-26-2015 12:51 PM
Reply to: Message 1425 by Dr Adequate
03-25-2015 11:44 PM


code words, dog-whistles and prejudice
Faith's a Birther?

Of course Faith's a Birther.

Looking at the broader picture of this fake issue (ie people other than Faith) I see:

(1) Obama is Kenyan: this is code for being black, but you don't get called a racist for being prejudiced about kenyans ...

(2) Obama is Muslim: this is also code for being black, but it is still "okay" in some parts of the US to be Islamophobic, so again you don't get called a racist ... just an intolerant idiot (something Christians seem to have perfected in the extreme sects).

Just like socialist/communist/fascist/dictator is dog-whistle language for haters to hate before even considering the reality.

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1425 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-25-2015 11:44 PM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1464 by ooh-child, posted 03-26-2015 4:46 PM RAZD has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 31608
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1459 of 1485 (754412)
03-26-2015 12:56 PM
Reply to: Message 1457 by Dr Adequate
03-26-2015 12:10 PM


Re: How It Happened
I'm tired of arguing this. My mistakes are trivial and traceable to identifiable sources. The comparison is ludicrous with the kind of "mistakes" you are trying to rationalize away.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1457 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-26-2015 12:10 PM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

    
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 1460 of 1485 (754421)
03-26-2015 2:36 PM
Reply to: Message 1433 by Faith
03-26-2015 1:03 AM


Re: try actually thinking you all
Thanks.

I watched those videos. I'm not sure if there's anything in them that really addresses where Obama was born.

For example, the one video about his grandmother shows her calling Obama a "son" of their village. Well and good, but the damning evidence is their claim that she says she was present at his birth. Yet she is never shown saying that anywhere. You'd think the nail in the coffin would make it on the tape; having the assertion just flash on screen doesn't give much credibility to the claim.

The mailman's nuts. His reaction to little things is overly dramatic. And I think most white folks would call a black person named Obama a foreigner regardless of where they were born.

The video that claims Obama said he was born in Kenya, similar to the video involving his grandmother, never show any video or writings in which Obama says such a thing. So where did he say he was born in Kenya?

So even if his story is entirely true, it doesn't really provide much evidence that Obama was born outside the U.S.

Note that in the first video the news announcer casually calls the Kenya village Obama's "home village."

I don't know enough about his life history, so it is hard for me to know what the significance is of that. I, for instance, do not refer to the city where I was born as my hometown.

Maybe there's something different going on here; I don't know where Obama spent all the early years of his life.

And in any case, the reporter could simply be wrong.

Edited by Jon, : No reason given.

Edited by Jon, : No reason given.

Edited by Jon, : No reason given.


Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1433 by Faith, posted 03-26-2015 1:03 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1461 by Faith, posted 03-26-2015 3:03 PM Jon has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 31608
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1461 of 1485 (754425)
03-26-2015 3:03 PM
Reply to: Message 1460 by Jon
03-26-2015 2:36 PM


Re: try actually thinking you all
I guess you can think his grandmother was speaking metaphorically of an honorary status or you can believe the narrator who claims she was speaking literally of his actual birth.

The mailman didn't "call" Obama a foreigner, he said Mary Ayers called him a "foreign student" they were helping through Harvard.

And that's just too specific and important a piece of information for a publishing company to allow to stand in an advertisement for a publication they are planning.

But OK, there's enough ambiguity to be inconclusive.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1460 by Jon, posted 03-26-2015 2:36 PM Jon has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1462 by jar, posted 03-26-2015 3:05 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 1463 by NoNukes, posted 03-26-2015 4:37 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 1470 by Jon, posted 03-26-2015 6:19 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 30980
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 1462 of 1485 (754427)
03-26-2015 3:05 PM
Reply to: Message 1461 by Faith
03-26-2015 3:03 PM


Re: try actually thinking you all
What the narrator says is just propaganda and not evidence.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1461 by Faith, posted 03-26-2015 3:03 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(5)
Message 1463 of 1485 (754431)
03-26-2015 4:37 PM
Reply to: Message 1461 by Faith
03-26-2015 3:03 PM


Re: try actually thinking you all
But OK, there's enough ambiguity to be inconclusive.

And yet this inconclusive ambiguity is also what you consider to be very good evidence that Obama was born in Kenya.

I appreciate the view into your standard for very good evidence. It casts a strong light on similar claims you make in other threads. For that reason I consider this thread very enlightening. I'm sure I'll have reason to cite this thread in the future.


Je Suis Charlie

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1461 by Faith, posted 03-26-2015 3:03 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
ooh-child
Member
Posts: 231
Joined: 04-10-2009
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 1464 of 1485 (754432)
03-26-2015 4:46 PM
Reply to: Message 1458 by RAZD
03-26-2015 12:51 PM


Re: code words, dog-whistles and prejudice
(1) Obama is Kenyan: this is code for being black, but you don't get called a racist for being prejudiced about kenyans ...

(2) Obama is Muslim: this is also code for being black, but it is still "okay" in some parts of the US to be Islamophobic, so again you don't get called a racist ... just an intolerant idiot (something Christians seem to have perfected in the extreme sects).

I know I've come into this discussion with Faith in the middle, obviously, but I have a question & I think RAZD is probably the best person to answer -

Is Obama running in the next Republican primary? Cuz, the title of this thread is about awesome Republican primaries.

Color me confused....


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1458 by RAZD, posted 03-26-2015 12:51 PM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1465 by Omnivorous, posted 03-26-2015 4:49 PM ooh-child has not yet responded
 Message 1468 by nwr, posted 03-26-2015 5:27 PM ooh-child has acknowledged this reply
 Message 1479 by RAZD, posted 03-26-2015 7:11 PM ooh-child has acknowledged this reply

  
Omnivorous
Member (Idle past 1130 days)
Posts: 3808
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005


(4)
Message 1465 of 1485 (754433)
03-26-2015 4:49 PM
Reply to: Message 1464 by ooh-child
03-26-2015 4:46 PM


Re: code words, dog-whistles and prejudice
ooh-child writes:

Is Obama running in the next Republican primary? Cuz, the title of this thread is about awesome Republican primaries.

No, but candidates will be running against Obama in every Republican primary.

Forever.


"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1464 by ooh-child, posted 03-26-2015 4:46 PM ooh-child has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1466 by NoNukes, posted 03-26-2015 4:57 PM Omnivorous has responded

    
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 1466 of 1485 (754434)
03-26-2015 4:57 PM
Reply to: Message 1465 by Omnivorous
03-26-2015 4:49 PM


Re: code words, dog-whistles and prejudice
No, but candidates will be running against Obama in every Republican primary.

Forever.

I figure that a slogan of 'taking the country back' will figure prominently in at least some of the up coming campaigns. Left unsaid, but not unheard will be some famous inaudible wording from that Blazing Saddles roof top scene.


Je Suis Charlie

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1465 by Omnivorous, posted 03-26-2015 4:49 PM Omnivorous has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1469 by Omnivorous, posted 03-26-2015 5:40 PM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 1467 of 1485 (754436)
03-26-2015 5:00 PM
Reply to: Message 1426 by Dr Adequate
03-25-2015 11:50 PM


Re: try actually thinking you all
Well, I guess there's no stronger bond than that between a man and his literary agent.

Wouldn't Obama have approved the bio that his literary agency was using for him?

Not that it means he actually was born in Kenya, but it would mean that he was willing to say that he was.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1426 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-25-2015 11:50 PM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1473 by NoNukes, posted 03-26-2015 6:47 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 5585
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005


Message 1468 of 1485 (754438)
03-26-2015 5:27 PM
Reply to: Message 1464 by ooh-child
03-26-2015 4:46 PM


Re: code words, dog-whistles and prejudice
Is Obama running in the next Republican primary? Cuz, the title of this thread is about awesome Republican primaries.

Check the date when the thread was started. This thread is about the 2012 election, though it may have drifted a tad off topic.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1464 by ooh-child, posted 03-26-2015 4:46 PM ooh-child has acknowledged this reply

  
Omnivorous
Member (Idle past 1130 days)
Posts: 3808
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005


(1)
Message 1469 of 1485 (754439)
03-26-2015 5:40 PM
Reply to: Message 1466 by NoNukes
03-26-2015 4:57 PM


Re: code words, dog-whistles and prejudice
Obama woulda made a great Black Bart, but an even better Firesign Theater Babe:

quote:
SOUND: Door opens.

BABE: Telegram fo' you, Miss DiAngelo! ... Oh, uh-I'm sorry-I didn't know ... This is for you, Ma'm ...

LURLENE: Thank you, son. just a minute, boy! Come here ...

BABE: Yes?

LURLENE: Where are you from?

BABE: Nairobi, Ma'm. Isn't everybody?



"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1466 by NoNukes, posted 03-26-2015 4:57 PM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

    
Jon
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 1470 of 1485 (754440)
03-26-2015 6:19 PM
Reply to: Message 1461 by Faith
03-26-2015 3:03 PM


Re: try actually thinking you all
I guess you can think his grandmother was speaking metaphorically of an honorary status or you can believe the narrator who claims she was speaking literally of his actual birth.

Even if we believe the narrator's translation of what his grandmother is videotaped saying, it's the stuff she's not on tape saying that is the most important of her supposed statements.

The mailman didn't "call" Obama a foreigner, he said Mary Ayers called him a "foreign student" they were helping through Harvard.

All the same. Plenty of U.S. citizens get called foreigners for whatever reason. Such remarks can hardly be counted for much. And even if the Ayers really did think Obama was an official foreigner, they could have just been wrong.

And that's just too specific and important a piece of information for a publishing company to allow to stand in an advertisement for a publication they are planning.

What publications?

But OK, there's enough ambiguity to be inconclusive.

The real thing is that there is no official evidence countering the official evidence.

Let me give you a personal example to illustrate my concerns here. Hardly anyone I know would describe me as being from the town I was actually born inincluding my parents. It is a technicality, and the technicality is of little meaning to people in their day-to-day conversations. The only time I ever bring up the city I was born in is on forms where the information is required, otherwise I always tell people I am from my hometown, and the people in my hometown would be perfectly right in claiming me as one of their own.

But that technicality still exists, and if I ever needed to be born in the town I was born in to qualify for something, I would technically qualify, regardless of all the other things surrounding where I'm from.

And what evidence do I have for being born in that town? A birth certificate and a newspaper clipping.

And that's often all there is...

Jon


Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1461 by Faith, posted 03-26-2015 3:03 PM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1471 by ThinAirDesigns, posted 03-26-2015 6:38 PM Jon has acknowledged this reply

  
RewPrev1
...
94959697
98
99Next
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2019