Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 64 (9164 total)
3 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,763 Year: 4,020/9,624 Month: 891/974 Week: 218/286 Day: 25/109 Hour: 1/2


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   The Creationist Challenge - Can You Identify Kinds?
Taq
Member
Posts: 10072
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 10 of 18 (622114)
06-30-2011 5:53 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Chuck77
06-30-2011 7:08 AM


I guess the definition I would use to describe a "kind" would be a group of living organisms having descended from the same ancestral gene pool.
So what criteria do Creationists use to determine if two species are derived from the same ancestral pool? Do they use morphological criteria? Genetic?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Chuck77, posted 06-30-2011 7:08 AM Chuck77 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by DWIII, posted 06-30-2011 9:17 PM Taq has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10072
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 16 of 18 (622164)
07-01-2011 12:22 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by ZenMonkey
06-30-2011 10:22 PM


I don't know about that. I think that the current version of the Linnean taxonomy system is possibly arbitrary in an absolute sense.
Linnaean taxonomy arbitrarily puts species into genera, classes, etc. For example, whether or not chimps belong in the Homo or Pan genus is an arbitrary distinction. It was also an arbitrary decision to put all mammals into one class instead of multiple classes. There is only one non-arbitrary classification in biology which is at the species level. Cladistics solves these problems by rooting species by shared characteristics within a phylogeny.
This is made even more obvious if you think about the history of life. At one point in history, there was only one species of mammal. If we had to categorize life at that point in history with the Linnaean system then this one species of mammal would comprise a single genus within the class Reptilia. So how does a genus become a class within Linnaean taxonomy? Well, it can't. The arbitrary nature of Linnaean taxonomy has a tough time organizing evolving populations over time.
Start with the class Mammalia. Pick two orders within that class, say rodents and primates. Do all the families within one order (e.g. the mouse family and the mole rat family in the rodent order) show the same degree of difference as all the families within the other order (e.g. the great ape family and and the lesser ape, i.e. gibbon family in the primate order)? Would that imply an absolute classification system?
Why are rodents and primates in separate orders?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by ZenMonkey, posted 06-30-2011 10:22 PM ZenMonkey has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by caffeine, posted 07-04-2011 4:57 AM Taq has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024