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Author Topic:   Alternative history... (what if Jesus Christ hadn't been crucified?)
Chuck77
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 18 (622702)
07-06-2011 4:48 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Dirk
07-05-2011 9:20 PM


God's Sovereignty is the answer
Dirk writes:
According to the New Testament, Jesus died for our sins (or at least of those who wish to believe it). But what would have happened if the Romans hadn't crucified him, but simply put him in jail for life?
According to the New Testament, Jesus died for our sins (or at least of those who wish to believe it). But what would have happened if the Romans hadn't crucified him, but simply put him in jail for life?
If were using the Bible as the source of information here("according to the New Testement") to answer your question we would all be on our way to hell eternally seperated from God because we have no way now, for our sins to be forgiven.
According to the Bible God set this plan in motion from the beggining of time.
Revelations 13:8 says
" And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world".
It was God's plan all along. Jesus's purpose from the beggining was to die for Our sins. God knew Adam would sin, and that man, in His free will and now sinful nature, would need a Savoir.
Roman 5:12 says
" Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam’s transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. 5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. 5:16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. 5:17 For if by one man’s offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. 5:19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: 5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord."
The question isn't really what would happen if he didn't die, the real question is what happened when he Did.
According to the Bible God is Supreme, all knowing, all powerful and nothing can thwart His puposes. According to the Bible it is impoosible for Gods plan of Salvation to have not been carried out. There are no "what if's" when it comes to the crucifixion of Jesus. Everything that needed to happen happened and "what if's" do not apply.
Jesus' death on the Cross was never in question because it was God in His Sovereignty ( The Sovereignty of God is the biblical teaching that all things are under God's rule and control, and that nothing happens without His direction or permission) directing it.
Ephesians 1:11 says
11 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will,
Isaiah 46:11 says
11 calling a bird of prey from the east,
the man of my counsel from a far country.
I have spoken, and I will bring it to pass;
I have purposed, and I will do it.
Hope this answers the question
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Edited by Chuck77, : No reason given.
Edited by Chuck77, : No reason given.
Edited by Chuck77, : No reason given.
Edited by Chuck77, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Dirk, posted 07-05-2011 9:20 PM Dirk has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by Straggler, posted 07-06-2011 5:38 PM Chuck77 has not replied

  
Chuck77
Inactive Member


Message 14 of 18 (622865)
07-07-2011 12:26 AM


Off Topic
Nuggin writes:
It's extremely likely that if there even was a "Jesus", his life/death bears little resemblance to what is currently in the Bible.
The Bible storyline is the same as a handful of other solar deities. It's always easier to convert people to your religion if you first steal theirs.
Further, the mythology never quite matches up with the message in any part of the Bible.
Christ died on the cross not because there was some guy who was actually crucified, but because the vast majority of solar deities die on the cross with two other men. It's seen again and again and again in mythology from the region dating back thousands of years.
It's all astronomical. The sun's transit across the sky ends at the the southern cross with two companion stars. The sun "dies" for 3 days, then rises again.
There's a reason that solar deities all share the same birth day, the same death, the same "three visitors", the same "companions at death", etc etc etc
I'm saying that there may or may not have been a Jesus. And that person may or may not have said a few choice things. Most likely not, but I wasn't there. That person's life has virtually nothing in common with the story in the Bible which is just a mishmosh of Horace, Mithra and the rest.
Im not sure how all of this got past AdminPD. Usually she's on the off topic comments like white on rice. This thread is NOT about weather Jesus existed, it's about what would happen if he was put in jail for life instead of crucified. Try staying on topic, im sure there is another thread debating His existance, this isn't it.
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Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by ZenMonkey, posted 07-07-2011 1:01 AM Chuck77 has not replied

  
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