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Author Topic:   Subjective Evidence of Gods
Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


Message 278 of 468 (630930)
08-29-2011 12:21 PM
Reply to: Message 276 by Just being real
08-29-2011 1:23 AM


Just being real writes:
How many other people saw the space ship? How well did all the witnesses hold up under strong interrogation? Did all there testimonies basically agree without seeming too much like collusion? What mental state are the witnesses in? These questions all play a very important part in analyzing subjective evidence.
Take for example the story of the resurrection of Jesus...
...
The only conclusion based on the "subjective evidence" is that the event occurred.
You are correct. And, if this accurately described reality, then your conclusion would be correct.
However, your analogy does not accurately describe the situation we're investigating. You seem to have forgotten all the different religions. Even all the different Christian religions.
We don't have a bunch of folks who see the same spaceship.
We have many folk who claim to see 1 kind of spaceship, and another many folk who claim to see a different spaceship, and another crew who say it wasn't a spaceship at all, but a time machine... for over 100,000 different "things." Plus, we have many folk who claim that no space-ship (or anything else) was ever present in the first place.
Taking actual reality into account while looking at the Jesus story:
-we have lots of witnesses that say Thor actually exists
-we have lots of witnesses that say Allah exists, not Jesus
-we have lots of witnesses that say Jesus does not exist, and never did
...and taking reality into account, we see that the only conclusion based on the "subjective evidence" is that we're right back where we began... with no evidence for anything happening at all.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 276 by Just being real, posted 08-29-2011 1:23 AM Just being real has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 279 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-29-2011 12:47 PM Stile has seen this message but not replied
 Message 301 by Just being real, posted 08-30-2011 12:18 AM Stile has replied

Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


(1)
Message 316 of 468 (631074)
08-30-2011 8:47 AM
Reply to: Message 301 by Just being real
08-30-2011 12:18 AM


Too many competing experiences
Just being real writes:
In my analogy of the space ship, it employed a single historical event. Whereas your "editing" of my analogy seems to incorporate many historical events over vast and various times.
If you want to discuss a topic on the inconsistencies and fallacies of various religious claims, then I suggest you consider starting such a thread.
I have no desire to discuss the inconsistencies and fallacies of various religious claims. I'm just pointing out that you're not taking into account the whole picture.
You're right, your analogy of the space ship employed a single, historical event. Whearas my "editing" incorporated many historical events over vast and various times. Of course... the thing you didn't mention is that all these events deal with the same thing... whether or not any particular religious icon actually exists. Maybe you think "all the other events" shouldn't matter, but when attempting to find out the truth I tend to take into account all the information.
If we only look at one piece of the puzzle. Then, yes, of course it looks just fine. Why would there be any defects with it?
It's only when we take in all the information so as to look at the entire picture that we see that none of the pieces seem to fit together... anywhere. I'll even concede that all the Christian religions are exactly the same (kind of ridiculous... but it's unrequired for this discussion)... there are so many different religions in the first place that it doesn't matter. In fact, it really only takes two different religions that can't be true at the same time to wash away this kind of subjective evidence... and yet, there are many, many more than that. Hundreds? Thousands?
So, which version of the analogy do you think should be used? The one that ignores any contrary subjective evidence? Or the one that takes into account all the information? It's not really much of a choice...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 301 by Just being real, posted 08-30-2011 12:18 AM Just being real has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 374 by Just being real, posted 08-31-2011 5:50 AM Stile has seen this message but not replied

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