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Author Topic:   Who designed the ID designer(s)?
Energy
Junior Member (Idle past 2663 days)
Posts: 5
Joined: 12-28-2011


Message 379 of 396 (648904)
01-19-2012 10:12 AM
Reply to: Message 377 by Taq
07-13-2011 5:36 PM


Re: “What happened before that?”
quote:
We don't need to know where hydrogen and oxygen came from to know that water is made up of two hydrogens to one oxygen, as one example.

So, the answer to a question does not need to be explained in itself to be acceptable. Nor does it need to be simpler.

Edited by Energy, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 377 by Taq, posted 07-13-2011 5:36 PM Taq has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 380 by Larni, posted 01-19-2012 10:18 AM Energy has responded
 Message 389 by Dr Adequate, posted 01-19-2012 5:43 PM Energy has not yet responded

  
Energy
Junior Member (Idle past 2663 days)
Posts: 5
Joined: 12-28-2011


Message 381 of 396 (648907)
01-19-2012 10:33 AM
Reply to: Message 380 by Larni
01-19-2012 10:18 AM


Re: “What happened before that?”
quote:
What Taq seems to be saying is that initial conditions of the universe are not required to be known to understand how atoms and molecules interact.

It's a bit like understanding ToE does not need an understanding of abiogenesis.



So it's not a question of causality, but mechanism.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 380 by Larni, posted 01-19-2012 10:18 AM Larni has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 382 by Larni, posted 01-19-2012 10:42 AM Energy has responded
 Message 387 by Taq, posted 01-19-2012 4:45 PM Energy has not yet responded

  
Energy
Junior Member (Idle past 2663 days)
Posts: 5
Joined: 12-28-2011


Message 383 of 396 (648910)
01-19-2012 11:01 AM
Reply to: Message 382 by Larni
01-19-2012 10:42 AM


Re: “What happened before that?”
quote:
Oh, and welcome to EvC!

Why thank you.

quote:
We do not need to know where the atoms ultimately originated from.

Alright.

Edited by Energy, : No reason given.

Edited by Energy, : No reason given.

Edited by Energy, : ending discussion


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 Message 382 by Larni, posted 01-19-2012 10:42 AM Larni has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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Energy
Junior Member (Idle past 2663 days)
Posts: 5
Joined: 12-28-2011


Message 391 of 396 (649018)
01-19-2012 7:36 PM
Reply to: Message 388 by RAZD
01-19-2012 4:55 PM


Re: answers to find depend on the question asked
Causality and mechanism are one in the same, at least how I view it. What causes evolution? Descent with modification filtered through natural selection. What is the mechanism of evolution? Descent with modification filtered through natural selection.

Sounds like you're asking it wrong. If a footprint were found in snow, for example.
v
v
v
However, if the question "where do the atoms come from" is asked, then chemistry is not able to answer that question.

In a similar vein, if the question "where did life come from" is asked, then evolution is not able to answer that question --

The origin of the footprint doesn't answer how the foot made the depression in the snow, which would be explaining the mechanism of it. I could be wrong, however, as I am usually missing something lol

Thanks for the tips, Zen, and for the welcome.

Quite. Every three-year-old has discovered that if you go on asking "why?" for long enough, eventually you exhaust the knowledge of your parents. But this doesn't invalidate all the answers given before you reach that point.

I'm inclined to agree with you.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 388 by RAZD, posted 01-19-2012 4:55 PM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 393 by Taq, posted 01-20-2012 11:15 AM Energy has responded
 Message 396 by RAZD, posted 01-21-2012 10:47 AM Energy has not yet responded

  
Energy
Junior Member (Idle past 2663 days)
Posts: 5
Joined: 12-28-2011


Message 395 of 396 (649106)
01-20-2012 2:07 PM
Reply to: Message 393 by Taq
01-20-2012 11:15 AM


Re: answers to find depend on the question asked
Perhaps you could tell us how they are different?

I agree that the walking could be referred to as a cause. I guess the difference is that they don't refer to the same things at once.

So if simply walking is being referenced as the mechanism, then the cause would be what was walking.

Edited by Energy, : clarity


This message is a reply to:
 Message 393 by Taq, posted 01-20-2012 11:15 AM Taq has not yet responded

  
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