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Author | Topic: Biblical Support for the Pre-Tribulation Rapture | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Amazing how the obvious can be denied.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
While it may be objective fact that a crow and a gull attacked a dove released by the Pope it is not objectively a sign, let alone a sign that he is the AntiChrist.
Even if it were taken as a sign it has no clear and objective meaning. That is obvious. Who could possibly deny it?
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
The attack on the doves could be dismissed as coincidence of course, but that both of them were attacked the moment they left the Vatican window by two different birds is really rather amazing. The doves were to symbolize peace, a sort of prayer for peace in the world, and the crow and the seagull immediately attacked them as if to say "nope, no peace, you don't get to have your peace, we'll kill your peace." Not really much wiggle room in the interpretation it seems to me.
What I meant was that the facts themselves are clear and objective. That is they are precise and they are real and they are not vague or ambiguous. As for what they mean well thirteen is not a happy number in scripture, it is associated with Judas Iscariot for instance. And scoffing at the calculation of the 666 can only reflect an unthinking automatic dismissal because it's clear as a bell how it is derived and what it means. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
jar writes: We get your position. Basically, a large group of conmen, under the guise of Biblical Christianity, have warped and distorted the plain meanings of many of the stories and events mentioned in the Bible in order to profit off of such deception. Time has already told. The Tribulation and Rapture are simply easy cons to sell to willfully gullible fools. Perhaps you can give us an alternative view regarding these Biblical events, seeing as how you may be the *only* man in Texas who has read the Bible fully from cover to cover and at the same time stuck to your guns regarding the dishonesty of classical apologetics. And what of John MacArthur? Is he simply another protege of the P.T. Barnum School Of Apolojartics? The timing of this next news event is interesting. I just noticed it while researching MacArthur. SEC Brings Defrauding Charges against Son of Pastor John MacArthur. Of course even if true this charge does not automatically mean that MacArthur Sr. is a conman. From what I've heard of him, he is and has been in the past a reputable Bible Teacher.
John F. MacArthur The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith - You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do. Anne Lamott Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.~Andre Gide
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: You may think so, but that does nothing to clarify the meaning.
quote: So if it is a sign it’s more likely related to the war in Syria.
quote: And my point is that that isn’t important when the meaning - if any - is far from clear. Even your previous signs of the Rapture included things that were clear in your way - like the preacher talking about Rose Hashanah (which almost certainly was due to Rosh Hashanah being close).
quote: I’m scoffing at how you derive it. And the fact that there really is no reason to think that the Tribulation is close anyway, which would mean that Pope Francis is not the AntiChrist.
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jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: Perhaps you can give us an alternative view regarding these Biblical events, seeing as how you may be the *only* man in Texas who has read the Bible fully from cover to cover and at the same time stuck to your guns regarding the dishonesty of classical apologetics. Gladly although it is just repeating what I have said here in the past. The stories that have been included (as well as the ones excluded) are simply reflections of what the authors believed or wished to believe at the time they wrote the stories and all have either come true in the past or failed to come true. But all of the End Times stuff is simply failed prophecy. All of Revelation is failed prophecy. All of the apocalyptic writings included what was claimed to have been said by Jesus is just failed prophecy. It really is that simple.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9512 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Faith writes: The attack on the doves could be dismissed as coincidence of course Of course it's not coincidence, it's blood biology. Crows will attack any bird that comes near its nest - always. I have a crows nest in my sycamore tree, this time of year the two breeding crows see-off sea gulls, pigeons, magpies and even squirrels all day long. There's aerial battles every few minutes here.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Oh come on. I'm sure the Popes release doves from that window from time to time and it was a SEAGULL as well as a crow that IMMEDIATELY attacked them. Highly symbolic it seems to me. But clever clever people cdan always invent something to pretend they know what really happened. However, there are always going to be what are called proximate causes, natural reasons something happens perhaps. It's still symbolism.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
LOL
Faith writes: Oh come on. I'm sure the Popes release doves from that window from time to time and it was a SEAGULL as well as a crow that IMMEDIATELY attacked them. And the Seagulls were all crying "Mine, Mine, Mine" But clever clever people can always invent something to pretend basic biology is something mystical.
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jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
The Apocalyptic stories today from all the Apologists marketing pre-Tribulation or Tribulation or Rapture are no different than the Apocalyptic stories in the Bible; folk marketing what the think or wish or fear is going to happen during the lifetime of their audience. And like all of the Apocalyptic stories in the Bible each and every modern iteration has failed to come true.
But it is good business and very profitable.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9512 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Faith writes: Oh come on. I'm sure the Popes release doves from that window from time to time and it was a SEAGULL as well as a crow that IMMEDIATELY attacked them. Crows will attack ANYTHING that comes close to their nest - IMMEDIATELY. It's their job. Show me some unnatural behaviour and I still wouldn't be impressed but I would at least have to say it was a bit weird.
Highly symbolic it seems to me.
Absolutely natural behaviour is what it is. Seagulls do the same but extend it to people too.
It's still symbolism.
It's still bollox.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
You already have a whole thread for testing the And what of John MacArthur? Is he simply another protege of the P.T. Barnum School Of Apolojartics?"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
I saw a crow eating mushrooms off my lawn once - symbolic of the Last Supper. ... there are always going to be what are called proximate causes, natural reasons something happens perhaps. It's still symbolism."I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"
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jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
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ringo writes: I saw a crow eating mushrooms off my lawn once - symbolic of the Last Supper. Only if it was served with focaccia and a nice Est! Est! Est!.
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Duly noted. I was merely responding to Faith's presentation of MacArthur's work.
jar was criticizing her conclusions, which extended to criticism of MacArthur since he was her source. As I researched him, I noted the linked story. But yes, we can discuss it there if you want.
ringo writes: we all waste each others time. Don't blame me for that one. get off your high horse and come join us for the Last Supper before the deadly Corvid-19 outbreak that may yet usher in the rapture! So why do you waste our time with such questions?The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith - You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do. Anne Lamott Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.~Andre Gide
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