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Author Topic:   Biblical Support for the Pre-Tribulation Rapture
Faith
Member
Posts: 34709
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 61 of 246 (871793)
02-12-2020 3:19 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by PaulK
02-12-2020 3:11 PM


Re: The Antichrist of the Great Tribulation
"Antichrist" means both against Christ and usurper of Christ.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by PaulK, posted 02-12-2020 3:11 PM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 64 by PaulK, posted 02-12-2020 3:27 PM Faith has responded

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2059
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 2.2


(2)
Message 62 of 246 (871794)
02-12-2020 3:19 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by Faith
02-12-2020 3:18 PM


Re: If Francis is The Antichrist, then the Great Tribulationi is just around the corner
You can now run around screaming and tearing your hair out and calling me names

i prefer to just point and mock and laugh

Edited by DrJones*, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by Faith, posted 02-12-2020 3:18 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 5950
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 2.6


(1)
Message 63 of 246 (871795)
02-12-2020 3:21 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by Faith
02-11-2020 7:06 PM


Re: The Antichrist of the Great Tribulation
I've been convinced that the Papacy is the seat of the Antichrist because that's what Martin Luther and other leaders of the Protestant Reofrmation concluded from scripture. Yes from scripture.

Martin Luther? Oh, you mean the antisemite who wrote, "The Jews and Their Lies?" Here's an adorable excerpt:

quote:
"I had made up my mind to write no more either about the Jews or against them. But since I learned that these miserable and accursed people do not cease to lure to themselves even us, that is, the Christians, I have published this little book, so that I might be found among those who opposed such poisonous activities of the Jews who warned the Christians to be on their guard against them. I would not have believed that a Christian could be duped by the Jews into taking their exile and wretchedness upon himself. However, the devil is the god of the world, and wherever God's word is absent he has an easy task, not only with the weak but also with the strong... Vengeance a thousand times worse than we could wish them already has them by the throat. I shall give you my sincere advice:

First to set fire to their synagogues or schools and to bury and cover with dirt whatever will not burn, so that no man will ever again see a stone or cinder of them. This is to be done in honor of our Lord and of Christendom, so that God might see that we are Christians, and do not condone or knowingly tolerate such public lying, cursing, and blaspheming of his Son and of his Christians.... Second, I advise that their houses also be razed and destroyed. For they pursue in them the same aims as in their synagogues. Instead they might be lodged under a roof or in a barn, like the gypsies. This will bring home to them that they are not masters in our country, as they boast, but that they are living in exile and in captivity, as they incessantly wail and lament about us before God.

Third, I advise that all their prayer books and Talmudic writings, in which such idolatry, lies, cursing and blasphemy are taught, be taken from them.

Fourth, I advise that their rabbis be forbidden to teach henceforth on pain of loss of life and limb. For they have justly forfeited the right to such an office by holding the poor Jews captive with the saying of Moses (Deuteronomy 17) in which he commands them to obey their teachers on penalty of death


Hitler himself couldn't have said it more eloquently or with such venom. Raze their synagogues, schools and homes to the ground... What a wonderful source of inspiration.

The Reformation identification of the Pope is often rejected just because there is a succession of Popes while scripture seems to point to a singular figure who appears at the very end of time before Christ returns, as THE Antichrist. Well, the biblical evidence for the papacy as the Antichrist is very strong.

While the RCC got Christianity totally and completely wrong in my estimation, I think its safe to say that nobody plans on following anyone from the Papacy. They're a dying breed. Remember, Faith, there's several billion Muslims, millions of non-Catholic Christians, and billions of Hindus and Budhists. You really think the entirety of the world is just going to suddenly look towards the Pope for guidance?

The scriptures are clear to say that the Anti-Christ will be the last person you'd ever expect and that pretty much everyone is gonna be duped by him before he reveals his true colors.

This is just your hatred for the RCC manifesting itself and nothing more. You like to force square pegs in to round holes. And in all of that ranting you never actually made the case Scripturally, you just made an empty and hollow assertion.

Edited by Hyroglyphx, : No reason given.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by Faith, posted 02-11-2020 7:06 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 67 by Faith, posted 02-12-2020 3:55 PM Hyroglyphx has responded

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 15932
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 64 of 246 (871796)
02-12-2020 3:27 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by Faith
02-12-2020 3:19 PM


Re: The Antichrist of the Great Tribulation
quote:
"Antichrist" means both against Christ and usurper of Christ.

Vicarius means neither “against” nor “usurper” (not that “anti” means usurper). It’s related to “vice” as in “Vice President”. Dies that title mean that Mike Pence is against or the usurper of Donald Trump?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by Faith, posted 02-12-2020 3:19 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by Faith, posted 02-12-2020 3:34 PM PaulK has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 34709
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 65 of 246 (871797)
02-12-2020 3:34 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by PaulK
02-12-2020 3:27 PM


Re: The Antichrist of the Great Tribulation
I've been taught for years that the Greek for "anti" implies both "against" and "in the place of." I am pointing out that the various descriptions and titles of the Pope make him a usurper. "Vicarious" certainly means substitute, or in the place of something else.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by PaulK, posted 02-12-2020 3:27 PM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by PaulK, posted 02-12-2020 3:42 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 15932
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 66 of 246 (871798)
02-12-2020 3:42 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by Faith
02-12-2020 3:34 PM


Re: The Antichrist of the Great Tribulation
quote:
I've been taught for years that the Greek for "anti" implies both "against" and "in the place of."

In context AntiChrist pretty clearly means “against Christ”. How could it possibly mean a “Vice Christ” (in the same sense as Vice President)?

quote:
I am pointing out that the various descriptions and titles of the Pope make him a usurper.

You are asserting it but it certainly is not true. A vicarius is not a usurper - the very title denies it.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by Faith, posted 02-12-2020 3:34 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 34709
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 67 of 246 (871799)
02-12-2020 3:55 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by Hyroglyphx
02-12-2020 3:21 PM


Re: The Antichrist of the Great Tribulation
Yes, Luther had a conniption fit when he discovered the writings of the Jews against Christ. He'd been very friendly to them up until that discovery.

While the RCC got Christianity totally and completely wrong in my estimation, I think its safe to say that nobody plans on following anyone from the Papacy. They're a dying breed. Remember, Faith, there's several billion Muslims, millions of non-Catholic Christians, and billions of Hindus and Budhists.

There are 1.2 billion Catholics and 1.8 billion Muslims. Ask Google.

You really think the entirety of the world is just going to suddenly look towards the Pope for guidance?

Probably not suddenly. But people will be rather on edge after the Christians all disappear, and that may occur during some kind of worldwide upheaval too, according to some teachers. And the Pope will probably have to do some "miracles" to get their attention. (This is another reason to think he'll be possessed by Satan.)_ But scripture says that multitudes will be saved to the true Christ so not all people are going to be deceived, just a huge number.

The scriptures are clear to say that the Anti-Christ will be the last person you'd ever expect and that pretty much everyone is gonna be duped by him before he reveals his true colors.

"Pretty much everyone?" You should supply scripture for that, but remember that the RCC completely ruled Europe for a millennium, and the Pope still heads 1.2 billion Catholics.

But consider that even the Protestant churches aren't suspecting the Pope. Lots of them consider the RCC to be just another Christian denomination, and many actually honor the Pope. Some have even gone to the Vatican to be blessed by the Pope. Seems to me he's just about "the last person" many would ever suspect of being the Antichrist. Especially these latest Popes since Vatican II who have been doing their best to bend their doctrine to embrace all other religions and even atheism. Hey, the Pope is a Really Nice Guy in the eyes of most of the world. Catholic traditionalists and some Protestants consider Francis to be violating a lot of Christian teaching, but that's not a very big number.

This is just your hatred for the RCC manifesting itself and nothing more.

Where would I get such "hatred" if not from learning about what the RCC teaches? And if I hate it what I hate is the doctrines of the papacy, not Catholics themselves, who need to be saved from it. And besides, when I was reading up on religions back in the early eighties, I loved the Catholic mystics and thought for a long time I was going to become a Catholic. It DID take further study to learn that they aren't the true Church.

You like to force square pegs in to round holes. And in all of that ranting you never actually made the case Scripturally, you just made an empty and hollow assertion.

Well, if you really think that based on what I've written here I guess there's no way to dissuade you.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by Hyroglyphx, posted 02-12-2020 3:21 PM Hyroglyphx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 68 by PaulK, posted 02-12-2020 4:07 PM Faith has responded
 Message 70 by Hyroglyphx, posted 02-12-2020 4:29 PM Faith has responded

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 15932
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 68 of 246 (871800)
02-12-2020 4:07 PM
Reply to: Message 67 by Faith
02-12-2020 3:55 PM


Re: The Antichrist of the Great Tribulation
quote:
Where would I get such "hatred" if not from learning about what the RCC teaches?

Obviously from the anti-Catholic propaganda you so love. Except when it’s not vicious enough.

It’s just one of the ways your evil shows itself.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by Faith, posted 02-12-2020 3:55 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 69 by Faith, posted 02-12-2020 4:16 PM PaulK has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 34709
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 69 of 246 (871801)
02-12-2020 4:16 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by PaulK
02-12-2020 4:07 PM


Re: The Antichrist of the Great Tribulation
Well, ad hominem is always a reliable port in a storm of ideas you don't like, isn't it?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by PaulK, posted 02-12-2020 4:07 PM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 71 by PaulK, posted 02-12-2020 4:34 PM Faith has responded

  
Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 5950
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 70 of 246 (871802)
02-12-2020 4:29 PM
Reply to: Message 67 by Faith
02-12-2020 3:55 PM


Re: The Antichrist of the Great Tribulation
Yes, Luther had a conniption fit when he discovered the writings of the Jews against Christ. He'd been very friendly to them up until that discovery.

If he was wrong about Jews then why is he right about everything else?

Probably not suddenly. He'll probably have to do some "miracles" to get their attention. (This is another reason to think he'll be possessed by Satan.)_ But scripture says that multitudes will be saved to the true Christ so not all people are going to be deceived, just a huge number.

One of the signs of the Anti-Christ in Islam is the performing of miracles akin to Jesus. They also believe that Satan is behind all of it. Whether you want to accept it or not, a humongous portion of Judaism and Christianity has been absorbed into Islamic teachings -- including eschatology. Muslims aren't going to suddenly convert to their mortal enemies religion. That makes no sense.

"Pretty much everyone?" You should supply scripture for that, but remember that the RCC completely ruled Europe for a millennium, and the Pope still heads 1.2 billion Catholics.

I'm talking about everyone else.... that's billions of people who are not practicing Catholics. So how do they somehow come to worship a pederast in a funny looking hat? Makes no sense.

But consider that even the Protestant churches aren't suspecting the Pope. Lots of them consider the RCC to be just another Christian denomination, and many actually honor the Pope. Some have even gone to the Vatican to be blessed by the Pope. Seems to me he's just about "the last person" many would ever suspect of being the Antichrist.

Seems much more logical and in keeping with eschatology that the Anti-Christ would be secular, charismatic, probably is the guy who cures diseases, is very important in tech, and is liked by everyone nearly universally. I think of somebody like Elon Musk, but even more popular and greater contributions to the advancement of civilization. That's how you get a foot in the door -- the last person you'd suspect and for face value has made amazing contributions to everyone that you wouldn't suspect have nefarious intentions.

Where would I get such "hatred" if not from learning about what the RCC teaches?

I'm not saying your loathing of Catholic doctrine is unfounded, I'm suggesting that it is clouding your judgment concerning this pet theory of yours.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by Faith, posted 02-12-2020 3:55 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 73 by Faith, posted 02-12-2020 5:39 PM Hyroglyphx has responded
 Message 76 by Faith, posted 02-12-2020 6:12 PM Hyroglyphx has responded

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 15932
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 71 of 246 (871803)
02-12-2020 4:34 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by Faith
02-12-2020 4:16 PM


Re: The Antichrist of the Great Tribulation
And complaining about “ad hominem” is one of your convenient excuses for dismissing the truth.

The fact is that you actually did complain that today’s anti-Catholic propaganda wasn’t vicious enough.

You don’t have a good understanding of Catholic teaching.

You do love hate and lies. We all know it, and you aren’t exactly shy about showing it.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by Faith, posted 02-12-2020 4:16 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 72 by Faith, posted 02-12-2020 5:31 PM PaulK has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 34709
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 72 of 246 (871805)
02-12-2020 5:31 PM
Reply to: Message 71 by PaulK
02-12-2020 4:34 PM


Re: The Antichrist of the Great Tribulation
Please quote me if you are going to accuse me of saying something.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by PaulK, posted 02-12-2020 4:34 PM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 80 by PaulK, posted 02-13-2020 12:15 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 34709
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 73 of 246 (871806)
02-12-2020 5:39 PM
Reply to: Message 70 by Hyroglyphx
02-12-2020 4:29 PM


Re: The Antichrist of the Great Tribulation
He wasn't wrong about the Jews. They do have all kinds of curses and misrepresentations of Jesus in their writings. Why not? They deny that He's the Messiah, they hate Him. Luther was wrong to advocate punishing them as he did, but in fact that piece against the Jews didn't get read for centuries anyway. it was considered an embarrassment and buried.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by Hyroglyphx, posted 02-12-2020 4:29 PM Hyroglyphx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by Hyroglyphx, posted 02-12-2020 11:31 PM Faith has responded

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 3975
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 74 of 246 (871807)
02-12-2020 5:39 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by Faith
02-12-2020 2:38 PM


Re: The Antichrist of the Great Tribulation
Please use the Peek button on this reply to see how to use nested qs-tags. It's not rocket science nor brain surgery nor those pesky mysterious features of the English language like conditionals (ie, if-statements) and the plural.

DWise1 writes:

Faith writes:

ANYWAY, add up the Roman numerals of that title, …


Why Roman numerals and not Greek numerals? After all, the New Testament was written in Greek, not in Latin.

It's a phrase that describes the Pope, so Latin with Roman numerals are very appropriate.

So then in other words you're still pulling the same old shtupid crap of ignoring facts and reality in order to blunder full speed ahead generating a wake of false claims that are complete and utter crap.

Why are we not surprised?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by Faith, posted 02-12-2020 2:38 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 75 by Faith, posted 02-12-2020 5:46 PM dwise1 has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 34709
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 75 of 246 (871808)
02-12-2020 5:46 PM
Reply to: Message 74 by dwise1
02-12-2020 5:39 PM


Re: The Antichrist of the Great Tribulation
Funny, you remind me very strongly of the House Democrats making it all up against Trump while what he said was clear enough and true.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by dwise1, posted 02-12-2020 5:39 PM dwise1 has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by PaulK, posted 02-13-2020 12:12 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
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