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Author Topic:   Group of atheists has filed a lawsuit
Jon
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 430 of 479 (734973)
08-03-2014 11:41 PM
Reply to: Message 410 by NoNukes
08-02-2014 12:34 PM


Re: Atheists lose, cross stays
I don't know what atheists do on Christmas. Maybe they do still treat their kids to Santa Claus, but I suspect that they are not putting Nativity Scenes in their yards just to be cultural.
But in the US, do atheist do anything special on Easter other than take Good Friday off from work when it is offered? I suspect not. I suspect that they acknowledge such holidays they same way I honor Muslim holidays, namely by being respectful to others who do celebrate them.
Why limit your question to atheists? I am not an atheist; I am also not a Christian. I think that qualifies me to answer your question.
I am not a Christian.
I celebrate Christmas and Easter. Christmas is hugely commercialized, so there isn't much I do on this holiday that can really be said to be 'Christian', except that it is one of the only two days of the year I might find myself in a church and actually having a good time. It's an enjoyable atmosphere: folk singing, cheering, drinking cider. I've even brought my guitar and performed a couple songs myselfabout Jesus!
I am not a Christian.
Easter is an easier holiday to avoid as a non-Christian; but I celebrate it nonetheless. A big feast, perhaps some church. The Passion plays around town are always good to watch. And, of course, plenty of Easter-themed posts to participate in right here at EvC.
I am not a Christian.
But I do partake in these Christian holidays. Almost all of my morality is Christian-derived. I know many Christians. I often count myself as a 'practicing' Christian' (not a believing Christian; one whowillingly and enjoyablygoes through the motions).
I am not a Christian.
I find your assumption that only Christians celebrate Christian holidays to be absurd. In fact, I have never met someone who does not celebrate Christmas and Easter, except for folks who were explicitly of a religion that did not contain these holidays (Islam, for example). The atheists I know in person all celebrate these holidays. In fact, I can tell you that based on talks with them that they, like me, hold mostly Christian-derived morals.
All of this deep-rooted Christian culture and yet...
I am not a Christian.

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 410 by NoNukes, posted 08-02-2014 12:34 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 432 by NoNukes, posted 08-04-2014 1:34 AM Jon has replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 434 of 479 (735005)
08-04-2014 12:15 PM
Reply to: Message 432 by NoNukes
08-04-2014 1:34 AM


Re: Atheists lose, cross stays
I commented only on my lack of understanding of what atheists do.
So then I guess that would make my response largely redundant: your question was only about atheists; you were already well aware that many non-atheist non-Christians celebrated Christian holidays. Is that a fair understanding?
As a second point, what I said was that I don't know what atheists do and that I suspect that atheists do not put up Nativity Scenes. That left room for people like Tangle to actually tell me what they do.
Speaking to my own credit, I did make mention that the atheists I know in person also celebrate Christian holidays.
I did not discuss, or example, what Muslim's or Jewish people might do.
There is certainly no reason to leave these folks out. All the Muslims I've met, for example, do not celebrate Thanksgiving, believing it to be a specifically Christian holiday. The Jews I've met, on the other hand, celebrate Christmas.
Interesting. So when you post as CreationJon, you are just mocking Creationists?
I'm not sure what relationship Creationism has with all of this. We are talking about Christianity and atheism.
Jon
Edited by Jon, : No reason given.

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 432 by NoNukes, posted 08-04-2014 1:34 AM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 435 by NoNukes, posted 08-04-2014 1:14 PM Jon has not replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 453 of 479 (735104)
08-05-2014 4:48 PM
Reply to: Message 450 by Tangle
08-05-2014 12:56 PM


Re: Atheists lose, cross stays
The museum chose an undeniable religious symbol. The rest is pure bullshit.
They told the world their reasons for including the cross.
If you want to continue to believe there are secret reasons they aren't telling everyone, reasons even the courts failed to find, reasons that even other atheists and non-Christians on this board have concluded do not exist; then that is your own delusional indulgence.
The rest of us will enjoy our reality.

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 450 by Tangle, posted 08-05-2014 12:56 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 455 by Tangle, posted 08-05-2014 5:05 PM Jon has replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 454 of 479 (735105)
08-05-2014 5:02 PM
Reply to: Message 452 by Tangle
08-05-2014 2:09 PM


Re: Atheists lose, cross stays
But like I said, I'd vote for it, I just wouldn't pretend that it's not a crucifix and holds no religious significance.
Plenty of historical artifacts also hold religious significance.
Ultimately, though, their inclusion among lists of historical artifacts is not their religious meaning but their historical importance.
I suppose half the country could begin venerating the White House as a holy religious shrine; but that would not obligate the government to dissolve its interest in maintaining the building, which it doesat public expenseon political, historical, and practical grounds.
Whatever the personal reasons for recognizing the cross as important, it still has historical significance that justifies its inclusion into the museum regardless of what anyone thinksincluding the museum's employees.

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 452 by Tangle, posted 08-05-2014 2:09 PM Tangle has not replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 464 of 479 (735181)
08-06-2014 4:19 PM
Reply to: Message 455 by Tangle
08-05-2014 5:05 PM


Re: Atheists lose, cross stays
The reality is an enormous, physical, tangible, photographical crucifix that the entire world can see, probably the most recognisable brand on the planet - the rest is rationalised hokum designed to get around an inconvenient law.
It doesn't matter what the reasoning anyone gives or believes is. The fact that the item has a valid historical reason for being included in the museum is all that matters.
Rationalized hokum is still rational.

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 455 by Tangle, posted 08-05-2014 5:05 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 465 by Tangle, posted 08-06-2014 4:47 PM Jon has seen this message but not replied

  
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