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Author Topic:   Group of atheists has filed a lawsuit
fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 2225 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


Message 1 of 479 (626142)
07-27-2011 12:49 PM


Just something to chew on.

quote:
A group of atheists has filed a lawsuit claiming the display of the World Trade Center cross at the 9/11 memorial in lower Manhattan is unconstitutional, calling it a "mingling of church and state."

Read more:

quote:
On Sunday, NBC removed the words "under God" from a reading of the Pledge of Allegiance at the opening of the U.S. Open Golf Championship.

Newsbusters' Noel Sheppard writes the network omitted the phrase "twice during the show's introduction."

Later in the broadcast, NBC apologized for the omission, but as Newsbusters' Mark Finkelstein reports, the network "compounded one omission with another," by failing to mention the phrase they left out: "under God."


read more:

NBC showed some balls for the briefest of moments, and then caved. I cant believe I am just now reading about this, I must have been drinking heavy that week. Was it mentioned here by anyone?


"No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride...and if it occasionally gets a little heavier than what you had in mind, well...maybe chalk it off to forced conscious expansion: Tune in, freak out, get beaten."
Hunter S. Thompson

Ad astra per aspera

Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.


Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Larni, posted 07-27-2011 1:02 PM fearandloathing has responded
 Message 3 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-27-2011 1:07 PM fearandloathing has responded
 Message 200 by IamJoseph, posted 08-15-2011 5:55 AM fearandloathing has acknowledged this reply

    
Larni
Member
Posts: 3975
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 2 of 479 (626145)
07-27-2011 1:02 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by fearandloathing
07-27-2011 12:49 PM


I can't imagine what the atheists seek to gain from suing anyone for putting up a cross.

Any religion should be free to put up their icons as well.

Wheres the beef?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by fearandloathing, posted 07-27-2011 12:49 PM fearandloathing has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by fearandloathing, posted 07-27-2011 1:10 PM Larni has not yet responded
 Message 11 by Modulous, posted 07-27-2011 2:06 PM Larni has responded
 Message 18 by Taq, posted 07-27-2011 5:42 PM Larni has not yet responded

    
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 3 of 479 (626146)
07-27-2011 1:07 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by fearandloathing
07-27-2011 12:49 PM


Who are they suing and for what?

quote:

The American Atheists, which advocates an "absolute separation" of government and religion,

How's that gonna work? The government is the people and some people are religious...


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by fearandloathing, posted 07-27-2011 12:49 PM fearandloathing has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by fearandloathing, posted 07-27-2011 1:14 PM New Cat's Eye has responded
 Message 9 by fearandloathing, posted 07-27-2011 2:00 PM New Cat's Eye has not yet responded

  
fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 2225 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


Message 4 of 479 (626149)
07-27-2011 1:10 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Larni
07-27-2011 1:02 PM


Any religion should be free to put up their icons as well.

Wheres the beef?

I thought the same thing, I think it would be nice for some artist to be able to get some scrap from the trade center and make a sculpture that would include a bit of all the religions of the people who died that day. JMO I think it might make a bold statement that Christians were not the only ones who died that day, and ask the atheist what they would like as a representation.

I think they are bitchin just to bitch, very troll like IMO.


"No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride...and if it occasionally gets a little heavier than what you had in mind, well...maybe chalk it off to forced conscious expansion: Tune in, freak out, get beaten."
Hunter S. Thompson

Ad astra per aspera

Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Larni, posted 07-27-2011 1:02 PM Larni has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by frako, posted 07-27-2011 1:56 PM fearandloathing has responded

    
fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 2225 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


Message 5 of 479 (626151)
07-27-2011 1:14 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by New Cat's Eye
07-27-2011 1:07 PM


Just know as much as the link I provided. I guess the memorial is a national park so they would be suing the park service maybe?... seems like a bunch of frivolous BS to me.

"No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride...and if it occasionally gets a little heavier than what you had in mind, well...maybe chalk it off to forced conscious expansion: Tune in, freak out, get beaten."
Hunter S. Thompson

Ad astra per aspera

Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-27-2011 1:07 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-27-2011 1:24 PM fearandloathing has responded

    
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 479 (626153)
07-27-2011 1:24 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by fearandloathing
07-27-2011 1:14 PM


Oh, well in that case:


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by fearandloathing, posted 07-27-2011 1:14 PM fearandloathing has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by fearandloathing, posted 07-27-2011 1:39 PM New Cat's Eye has not yet responded

  
fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 2225 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


Message 7 of 479 (626155)
07-27-2011 1:39 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by New Cat's Eye
07-27-2011 1:24 PM


It wouldn't be nearly as awesome without your input. Fox just broke it 4 hours ago, I cant seem to find anything else on it yet. I just thought I would put it out there and see what others thought. I could make shit up or post smartass replies if you like?

"No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride...and if it occasionally gets a little heavier than what you had in mind, well...maybe chalk it off to forced conscious expansion: Tune in, freak out, get beaten."
Hunter S. Thompson

Ad astra per aspera

Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-27-2011 1:24 PM New Cat's Eye has not yet responded

    
frako
Member
Posts: 2813
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 8 of 479 (626161)
07-27-2011 1:56 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by fearandloathing
07-27-2011 1:10 PM


Yea i think there should be a big cresent on the site of WTC you know that moon and the star the muslim symbol
This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by fearandloathing, posted 07-27-2011 1:10 PM fearandloathing has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by fearandloathing, posted 07-27-2011 2:03 PM frako has not yet responded

    
fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 2225 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


Message 9 of 479 (626164)
07-27-2011 2:00 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by New Cat's Eye
07-27-2011 1:07 PM


After a little digging it seems that the Port Authority, which is building the Memorial, would be who is getting sued.

quote:
The American Atheists, which advocates an "absolute separation" of government and religion, filed the lawsuit Monday to stop the display of the cross, arguing that it should not be included if "no other religions or philosophies will be honored," according to a statement on the group's website.

Read more:

Does this help?


"No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride...and if it occasionally gets a little heavier than what you had in mind, well...maybe chalk it off to forced conscious expansion: Tune in, freak out, get beaten."
Hunter S. Thompson

Ad astra per aspera

Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-27-2011 1:07 PM New Cat's Eye has not yet responded

    
fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 2225 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


Message 10 of 479 (626166)
07-27-2011 2:03 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by frako
07-27-2011 1:56 PM


Well it seems the atheist agree with you.

quote:
arguing that it should not be included if "no other religions or philosophies will be honored,

"No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride...and if it occasionally gets a little heavier than what you had in mind, well...maybe chalk it off to forced conscious expansion: Tune in, freak out, get beaten."
Hunter S. Thompson

Ad astra per aspera

Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by frako, posted 07-27-2011 1:56 PM frako has not yet responded

    
Modulous
Member (Idle past 184 days)
Posts: 7789
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


(3)
Message 11 of 479 (626167)
07-27-2011 2:06 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Larni
07-27-2011 1:02 PM


I can't imagine what the atheists seek to gain from suing anyone for putting up a cross.

Any religion should be free to put up their icons as well.

Wheres the beef?

quote:
Plaintiffs Dennis Horvitz and Kenneth Bronstein are members of American
Atheists and are Atheists reared in the Jewish tradition. They find the cross,
a symbol of Christianity, offensive and repugnant to their beliefs, culture,
and traditions, and allege that the symbol marginalizes them as American
citizens.

quote:
Plaintiff Jane Everhart is a member of American Atheists and is an Atheist
with a Catholic background. She finds the use of governmental action to
place a cross within the September 11 Memorial and Museum, which was
designed to memorialize all casualties of the World Trade Center, to be an
insult to every non-Christian survivor of that attack.

quote:
Plaintiff Mark Panzarino is a member of American Atheists. Plaintiff Mark
Panzarino was brother to Frank Joseph Panzarino, an inactive Marine
reservist who assisted in the rescue work for two weeks after the September
11, 2001 terrorist attack on the World Trade Center (hereinafter the 9/11
attack). Assisting in the rescues took its toll on his health, and Frank
Joseph Panzarino succumbed to weakened lung syndrome in 2005. As a
survivor of the 9/11 attack and family member of one of the brave
responders to the 9/11 attack, Mark Panzarino is appalled that the state has permitted a symbol of Christianity to represent a tragedy that affected
all Americans. The Panzarinos unequivocally do not wish for a cross to
represent Frank Joseph Panzarinos sacrifice unless it is a Lutheran Cross.

quote:
The September 11 Memorial and Museum will be on a site owned by the
Port Authority. Thus, the Memorial and Museum and its exhibits are a
government action.

quote:
The September 11 Memorial and Museum will be largely funded with
money from the government. Accordingly, actions taken by the September
11 Memorial and Museum also constitute governmental action.

quote:
Plaintiff American Atheists opposed inclusion of a cross on the grounds
that other religious groups were not given the opportunity for a similar faithbased
memorial at the site of an American tragedy.

quote:
On multiple occasions, plaintiff American Atheists publicly offered to
provide a memorial for the September 11 Memorial and Museum, at its own
cost, to represent the approximately 500 non-religious victims of the attack
on the World Trade Center.

Plaintiff American Atheists never received a response.


quote:
No other religious or non-religious group has been permitted a
memorial.

quote:
As a direct and proximate result of the unconstitutional existence of the
cross, plaintiffs have suffered, and will continue to suffer, damages for
which they have no clear, speedy, or adequate remedy at law. Plaintiffs seek
a declaration that the inclusion of a cross at the September 11 Memorial
and Museum, in the absence of equal acknowledgment of those non-
Christians who also were victims of the 9/11 attack, is unconstitutional.
American Atheists seek injunctive relieve against inclusion of the cross
and/or an order that a memorial to the non-religious Americans who fell
victim to the 9/11 attack be placed within the September 11 Memorial and
Museum near the cross.

The full argument can be read here


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Larni, posted 07-27-2011 1:02 PM Larni has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by fearandloathing, posted 07-27-2011 3:15 PM Modulous has acknowledged this reply
 Message 19 by Larni, posted 07-27-2011 5:56 PM Modulous has acknowledged this reply
 Message 402 by mike the wiz, posted 08-01-2014 5:27 PM Modulous has responded

  
fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 2225 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


(1)
Message 12 of 479 (626176)
07-27-2011 3:15 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Modulous
07-27-2011 2:06 PM


Thanks for the info Mod,

After looking over the info Mod produced I have to say it seems they have a valid argument. If we allow one religious symbol then we should allow all the religious symbols of the people who died that day. My initial position of it being frivolous BS was wrong, If I had paid closer attention to what I linked too I would've seen this sooner. I was wrong.

AbE Funny as it may be, but atheist seem to be fighting for, what they feel, should be the right of all/any religion who was effected that day.

Edited by fearandloathing, : No reason given.

Edited by fearandloathing, : No reason given.


"No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride...and if it occasionally gets a little heavier than what you had in mind, well...maybe chalk it off to forced conscious expansion: Tune in, freak out, get beaten."
Hunter S. Thompson

Ad astra per aspera

Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Modulous, posted 07-27-2011 2:06 PM Modulous has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by Artemis Entreri, posted 07-27-2011 4:46 PM fearandloathing has responded

    
Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2308 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 13 of 479 (626195)
07-27-2011 4:46 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by fearandloathing
07-27-2011 3:15 PM


boo hoo!

WHINE ONE ONE... I need a

its still frivolous garbage, I think you just want a discussion so you have switched sides, which is fine, let's discuss.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by fearandloathing, posted 07-27-2011 3:15 PM fearandloathing has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by hooah212002, posted 07-27-2011 4:50 PM Artemis Entreri has acknowledged this reply
 Message 15 by fearandloathing, posted 07-27-2011 4:53 PM Artemis Entreri has responded
 Message 20 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-27-2011 6:42 PM Artemis Entreri has responded

  
hooah212002
Member
Posts: 3183
Joined: 08-12-2009


(2)
Message 14 of 479 (626197)
07-27-2011 4:50 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Artemis Entreri
07-27-2011 4:46 PM


'10,000' throng to stop Ground Zero mosque

Are they whining bitches too? I'm sure you would have protested and signed a petition to stop the mosque being built too.


"Why don't you call upon your God to strike me? Oh, I forgot it's because he's fake like Thor, so bite me" -Greydon Square

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Artemis Entreri, posted 07-27-2011 4:46 PM Artemis Entreri has acknowledged this reply

    
fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 2225 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


(3)
Message 15 of 479 (626200)
07-27-2011 4:53 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Artemis Entreri
07-27-2011 4:46 PM


I think you just want a discussion so you have switched sides, which is fine, let's discuss.

I made a quick decision based on less than all the facts, I have said I think I was wrong initially. What is to discuss?? Are you accusing me of being a troll? What is wrong with changing ones mind based on more, or, further interpretation of the available facts?


"No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride...and if it occasionally gets a little heavier than what you had in mind, well...maybe chalk it off to forced conscious expansion: Tune in, freak out, get beaten."
Hunter S. Thompson

Ad astra per aspera

Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Artemis Entreri, posted 07-27-2011 4:46 PM Artemis Entreri has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by Artemis Entreri, posted 07-27-2011 5:08 PM fearandloathing has responded

    
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