Group of atheists has filed a lawsuit

My objection is the government sanctioning of Christian displays, not necessarily public displays of Christianity. That is what this thread is about.

No, the cross is religious, nobody denies that. But the purpose for displaying it is a secular one: to recount the history of what went down during that time.The cross impacted many people that were directly involved in the rescue and recovery efforts. It deserves to be recognized at this memorial. But nobody has provided any evidence for that at all. And in fact, we can read from the people behind the memorial:

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The Memorial Mission:

• Remember and honor the thousands of innocent men, women, and children murdered by terrorists in the horrific attacks of February 26, 1993 and September 11, 2001.
• Respect this place made sacred through tragic loss.
• Recognize the endurance of those who survived, the courage of those who risked their lives to save others, and the compassion of all who supported us in our darkest hours.
• May the lives remembered, the deeds recognized, and the spirit reawakened be eternal beacons, which reaffirm respect for life, strengthen our resolve to preserve freedom, and inspire an end to hatred, ignorance and intolerance.

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And from Mayor Bloomberg, the Chairman of the Board:

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The terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, brought loss and grief on a scale we had never known. But in the dark days that followed, the indomitable spirit of our city and nation shined more brightly than ever, as stories of heroism and sacrifice inspired us all. And together, we made a solemn vow: that we would never forget those we lost and that we would forever share their stories with the world.

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That is why we built the National September 11 Memorial & Museum.

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The Memorial & Museum provide a place of reflection and remembrance. They are designed to help those who were most affected by the attacks to heal — and those with no memory of the attacks to understand losses that will forever be incomprehensible.

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The 9/11 Memorial & Museum stands as a powerful tribute to the victims of the attacks — and to the power of the human spirit. Its importance will grow with each passing year.

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As you can see, having the cross at the memorial has nothing to do with skirting the constitution and having a government sanction religious symbol. Its all about remembering the events that surrounded the tragedy, and the cross was an important artifact involved in those events. Read the whole part:

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[Given] the absence of any evidence of ulterior religious motives, and the undisputed historical significance of The Cross at Ground Zero, we conclude that, as a matter of law, the record compels the conclusion that the actual purpose of displaying the cross in the September 11 Museum is a genuine secular interest in recounting the history of extraordinary events,

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The cross has a genuine secular interest in being displayed to recount the history of events around 9/11. That's undisputed historical significance in the absence of any ulterior religious motives. Case closed.

This is circular - the only interest in that particular piece of metal is because of its religious significance. If they'd actually wanted something secular, they'd have chosen a different shape - they had an infinite number to choose from.Truth is, they couldn't do anything else could they?

I have no reason to believe that whatsoever.I mean, who should I listen to? The people who are putting the museum together, or some random anonymous atheist on the internet?I think I'll side with the people who are in charge of the museum. They've explained why they've included the cross and the courts have ruled that it doesn't violate the constitution because they do have a genuine secular interest in including it.The case is closed. You lost. Get over it.

I've nothing to get over, it ain't my country and I personally think it's pretty cool. I'd have voted to keep it if asked.It doesn't get us passed the very, very obvious fact that it was chosen because of its religious significance.

that's it, shut the thread down. close up shop. No more discussion here folks.

Especially when people start avoiding the evidence for why they're wrong and instead go for the low lying fruit that is irrelevant.

That's why it was chosen by the rescuers for a meeting spot, etc., but that's not why the officials want it in the museum:

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Museum officials said the cross was being displayed not because of its religious value but the role it played in the aftermath of the attacks.

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"The mission of the National September 11 Memorial Museum is to tell the history of 9/11 through historic artefacts like the World Trade Center cross. This steel remnant became a symbol of spiritual comfort for the thousands of recovery workers who toiled at ground zero, as well as for people around the world," museum president Joe Daniels said in a statement.

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Well of course, that's what they have to say because of your inconvenient constitution - it's making everyone torture words and feelings. Truth is it was picked for its religious significance and it has a religious significance now - a very obvious one. It looks like a duck....not much point calling it anything else but a duck except to avoid a legalistic difficulty.

Or, god forbid, there are multiple lines of discussion going on (and by god, I do mean in a purely secular sense) but you want the discussion to be focused the way you want it to be because you are combative.

"People prayed to, and found SPIRITUAL sanctity in, this hunk of metal in the shape normally recognizable as a Christian one" sure seems like a secular thing to me. Like I said: I regularly pray to secular thing.Yes, the fact that it is now used as the lone rememberance of 9/11 is in itself secular. But it doesn't "just so happen" to be a cross. It is there and was used because it is a cross and it being a cross, it was used for spiritual and religious reasons. Reasons that only resonate with people that identify with a cross as having meaning. And guess who those people are? Christians. Find me non-Christians that identify with this cross and hold it as significant. Not people that have reason to be bias. They have known of the controversy from the very beginning, so any language they have used has been twisted to make it sound like their purpose is secular. The only mayor that would admit to it being religious is someone like Rick Perry or some Texan. Bloomberg isn't a moron and he knew, just like everyone else, that there would be controversy so he made damn sure to make any statements he made reflect that. No, that's what you see. I see mangled language. Is it really? No appeals? One court decision is all it takes to end discussion about a topic?Oh, when it suits you it does.Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given.

Are you trying to imply that Rick Perry is a moron??!! Why, I ought to come over there and...uh...agree with you!

You're skipping a step in your logic. The cross was chosen as a meeting point because of its spiritual significance and because it was easily recognizeable. It was chosen for the museum because it was chosen by the rescuers. If they had chosen a beam bent into the shape of a duck, that would be in the museum instead.

If and when another court overturns the ruling, we can discuss their reasoning.

'yeh, right.' as the kids say.......or, as my dad used to say, 'pull the other one it's got bells on.'The museum chose an undeniable religious symbol. The rest is pure bullshit.