why does the Idea of creation stick around?

exactly messenjaH. if you don't Understand Something you are Ignorant. Like I don't know the first thing about Car engines. so I am ignorant. However Unlike creationists I won't tell a mechanic he is wrong Because as I said I know nothing about it.Edit: I noticed you edited your message I guess you figured this kind of Response[This message has been edited by DC85, 08-31-2003]

Mj may have a point, though - it hardly stimulates constructive debate to cast around epithets like "ignorant", no matter how "technically" accurate they may be. After all words have more meaning than just the dictionary.Mj isn't a biologist. Well, guess what? Neither am I. I'm no less ignorant than he, just because I'm on the "side" of the evolutionists. And it's no more arrogant of Mj to criticize evolutionary ideas than it is for me to question creationism or the Bible (which I don't have a degree in, either.)That said, maybe we all need to be careful about sounding like we know a lot more than we do? And make an effort to avoid sweeping generalizations or blanket rejections of honestly presented data?

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exactly messenjaH. if you don't Understand Something you are Ignorant. Like I don't know the first thing about Car engines. so I am ignorant. However Unlike creationists I won't tell a mechanic he is wrong Because as I said I know nothing about it.
Edit: I noticed you edited your message I guess you figured this kind of Response

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I misread what coragryps wrote, that is why I deleted my message.------------------
"I AM THE MESSENJAH"holla at me for any reason at: messenjahjr@yahoo.com[This message has been edited by messenjaH, 08-31-2003]

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Mj may have a point, though - it hardly stimulates constructive debate to cast around epithets like "ignorant", no matter how "technically" accurate they may be. After all words have more meaning than just the dictionary.
Mj isn't a biologist. Well, guess what? Neither am I. I'm no less ignorant than he, just because I'm on the "side" of the evolutionists. And it's no more arrogant of Mj to criticize evolutionary ideas than it is for me to question creationism or the Bible (which I don't have a degree in, either.)

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That said, maybe we all need to be careful about sounding like we know a lot more than we do? And make an effort to avoid sweeping generalizations or blanket rejections of honestly presented data?

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Yeah, good idea.------------------
"I AM THE MESSENJAH"holla at me for any reason at: messenjahjr@yahoo.com[This message has been edited by messenjaH, 08-31-2003]

crashfrog you may not be But you at least have the knowledge. which more then I can say for most creationist. I did not say you need to have a degree not to be Ignorant. I am only a Biology Student now I am not a Biologist. I am not ignorant to creationist Beliefs either as I once was a creationist. I just think Creationist Have no right to say evolution is wrong when they have no Idea what they are saying

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crashfrog you may not be But you at least have the knowledge. which more then I can say for most creationist. I did not say you need to have a degree not to be Ignorant. I am only a Biology Student now I am not a Biologist. I am not ignorant to creationist Beliefs either as I once was a creationist. I just think Creationist Have no right to say evolution is wrong when they have no Idea what they are saying

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I bet you would be angry with me if I said "evolutionist's don't know what they are saying". Just maybe.------------------
"I AM THE MESSENJAH"holla at me for any reason at: messenjahjr@yahoo.com

See what I mean about the constructive debate? Notice how it's stopped? Just because some angry words were used?

this is the last thing I will say about this and I won't say anymore unless its about the topic. I have said this many times. The difference is Evolution has evidence to back it up(if you ask what evidence? make another topic) Your Bible does not. also Most(notice the most) Evolutionist where once Creationist[This message has been edited by DC85, 08-31-2003]

Hi Percy,
I don't know if this was the intent of this part of your post..

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The fact of the matter is that despite America's success in winning Nobel prizes and in producing some of the most competitive high technology companies and universities in the world, this doesn't filter down to most of the population, and so to most Americans science is like a foreign country. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but if you take a poll of a random sample of Americans you'll find that most of them, to the extent they think about it at all, question evolution and believe the world is only a few thousand years old.

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but the line that "..and so to most Americans science is like a forgeign country." is extremely accurate.Over 1/3rd of science Ph.D.s go to non-US citizens...in some disciplines it is higher. The entire productive output of American science is based on poaching well educated foreigners from countries that invest more in science education. The UK does this as well and in biological sciences, very successfully. Go to a genetics meeting and see just how many non-Americans are there
The current administrations post 911 response has been a disaster for American research as they are making it close to impossible for foreigners to complete research and studies in US labs because of the new visa requirements that have been imposed on universities without any additional funding. Even in the short term this could cripple US science to the advantage of any country smart enough to try to lure this talent (no Germany won't..they are even more of a pain in the ass for foreigners than the US and this waaay preceded 911). An example of what could be the future for US biotech and bio sci could be what is seen in the computer programming industry as lots of high tech programming jobs for example re-locate to India...actually, India is investing in biotech as well.What does this have to do with education in the US? The US is at the top in most scientific fields. Yet we are more dependent on foreigners for scientific output than the economy is on the gulf oil states...thus our scientific success is not reflecting the general education level of Americans or the US educational system....do you really think creationists who reject any data that conflicts with their reading of the bible, koran, whatever,..have no education in science or the principles of science will ever be able to participate or understand the technological developments that occur in biology or any other field?....keep trying to teach mythology as science in the classroom i.e. creationism and at the same time restrict foreigners from working in the US and see how many smiles one can put on the faces of Indian, UK, Thai whatever biology and biotech leaders...the US certainly is not producing enough of its own to compete...the US only invests in the high end of the market, grad schools (though this is falling apart) and biotech...but not in preparing the next generation of kids to enter careers in science.

Okay, I posted this in the Neanderthal thread, which I got 2 mumbo jumbo replies to before the thread was closed. Can someone please tell me where all the species between monkey and man, are today. How is it that monkey's are around, and men are around, yet there aren't species of hunched over nuckle dragging guys around. Where are like the previous 2 or 3 versions of man? I find it hard to believe that they would somehow go extinct completely. Don't give me this "we didn't come from extant", or whatever. If you have a real answer, tell me why none of them are here today.

That thread was moved actually. EvC Forum: Neanderthals------------------
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