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Author Topic:   Why Creationists' Willful Ignorance?
Nuggin
Member (Idle past 1727 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


(1)
Message 53 of 182 (628978)
08-15-2011 2:16 AM
Reply to: Message 50 by marc9000
08-14-2011 6:53 PM


Suppose someone at NASA, or the medical profession, took exception to the statement “In science, there is no truth”. Suppose they cited some accomplishments in their field, built on truths that were learned in science. Would they be wrong?

"Truth" is subjective. It belongs in philosophy.
Science is OBJECTIVE. It deals with facts.

There are not "truths" learned in science, only facts. An individual can hold the facts to be true or untrue. It doesn't change the facts.

“Teaching about something does not constitute advancing it as truth”? Really? Students are supposed to understand that as they’re taught math, history etc, that it may not actually be true, but they have to learn it anyway? That’s what education is – to learn things that may be false?

What does a discussion about these things have to do with evolution?

Again, truth is subjective. You can't really "teach" truth. You can teach ABOUT "truth", but each student will ultimately decide their own truth.

This makes truth a fairly useless subject for education.

The reason this all relates to evolution is the following:
Creationists are upset because their TRUTH disagrees with the facts. They want to replace the facts with their truth.

Creationists don't understand that their truth is irrelevant and that the facts are all education cares about.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Nuggin
Member (Idle past 1727 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


(2)
Message 81 of 182 (629119)
08-15-2011 11:31 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by IamJoseph
08-15-2011 6:49 AM


Ok, I won't give you any more word salad:

1. Pls tell us the first recording of life form groupings by category?

You KEEP coming back to this as though it were a convincing argument.

You claim that the Bible is the first recording of this stuff because you claim that the Bible predates everything else.

It DOESN'T.

Cave painting CLEARLY demonstrate different animal groups and predate the Bible (and in fact the ENTIRE UNIVERSE according to your 6,000 yr calendar) but tens of thousands of years.

You need to pick an argument which hasn't been so completely destroyed so many times.

We're starting to think you might be mentally disabled in your ability to retain other people's arguments. It's almost like you don't understand that once you say something and it's shown to be wrong, it stays wrong no matter how many times you bring it up.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by IamJoseph, posted 08-15-2011 6:49 AM IamJoseph has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 85 by IamJoseph, posted 08-16-2011 2:58 AM Nuggin has replied

Nuggin
Member (Idle past 1727 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


(1)
Message 86 of 182 (629137)
08-16-2011 3:19 AM
Reply to: Message 85 by IamJoseph
08-16-2011 2:58 AM


Call 911
You keep running away from it because it is a convincing arguement. The first recording of life form groupings is in Genesis - how far can you run?

Except it's not. The book of Genesis doesn't even come CLOSE. The caves in France alone are easily 5x older than the oldest possible copy of Genesis. Most likely far older even than that.

I never said that. The Hebrew bible is a late comer in the ancient world. Abraham emerged some 1200 years after the pyramids were built; the Hebrew bible 400 years thereafter.

Heiroglyphics are another fine example of writing about life forms prior to Genesis then. You just admitted the pyramids were older. The pyramids contain these images. Done.

That's bunk and bogus, based on the age of the cave - not the painting.

False. The caves outdate the paintings often by hundreds of thousands if not millions of years. Caves take a LONG time to form. No one dates the paintings by the age of the cave - ever.

Colour was not invented in writings till 5,500 years ago, and it came from India.

Perhaps one of the ********* things you've ever suggested, and that's saying a lot.

If Australian aboriginals are 60K years old, their popilation would be at least 5 trillion.

Only to be outdone by this gem. WTF are you talking about?!?!

Don't use words if you don't know what they mean, it makes you sound ****** or crazy.

separation of light and darkness; water from land; etc. Darwin forgot to list these critical factors. As if!

Wow, you are on a roll and it's all down hill.

Taco Word Salad Supreme.

I am making you froth.

You need to look up "froth". It's not the same thing as "laugh".

Seriously Joseph, you need to seek medical help. You are quite possibly schitzophrenic. You are certainly suffering from some sort of brain damage, likely brought on by a series of strokes.

Your ability to reason and communicate has be severely compromised.

Seek help.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by IamJoseph, posted 08-16-2011 2:58 AM IamJoseph has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 90 by IamJoseph, posted 08-16-2011 5:53 AM Nuggin has replied

Nuggin
Member (Idle past 1727 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 113 of 182 (629189)
08-16-2011 9:58 AM
Reply to: Message 90 by IamJoseph
08-16-2011 5:53 AM


Re: Call 911
Your out done. You cannot admit absolute hard copy proof of the first recording of life form groups, while you leap elsewhere with similar nonsense. The French 30K year claims have been blasted as a forgery. It has red color - a dead giveaway since even te Egyptians never had red dye 5000 years ago - the colors which were on the pyramids were got it from India.

This argument that the world was in black and white prior to the Great Flood is beyond retarded.

Red ocher is and has been a staple for tribal groups going back well before the dawn of time.

The leaps and bounds you would have to go through to disprove the cave paints are so absurdly ridiculous, it is beyond even your extreme capacity for fantasy.

Seriously, you are mentally disturbed. You need PROFESSIONAL help. You are a danger to yourself and others.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by IamJoseph, posted 08-16-2011 5:53 AM IamJoseph has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 130 by Larni, posted 08-16-2011 12:04 PM Nuggin has taken no action
 Message 133 by IamJoseph, posted 08-16-2011 6:24 PM Nuggin has replied

Nuggin
Member (Idle past 1727 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 115 of 182 (629191)
08-16-2011 10:00 AM
Reply to: Message 91 by IamJoseph
08-16-2011 5:55 AM



Let someone answer which is the first record of medicine, separating this faculty from the occult, and also introducing the concept of infectious virus, contagious bacteria, quarantine, treatment and ID of malignancies. This will show how ignorant creationists are, right? Have a go!

This claim has already been utterly destroyed by simply directly quoting the Bible's "cures" for disease.

Killing animals does not cure your disease.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Nuggin
Member (Idle past 1727 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 116 of 182 (629192)
08-16-2011 10:03 AM
Reply to: Message 95 by Pressie
08-16-2011 7:45 AM


Joseph's Black and White Dream Coat
Twenty six thousand years old. In colour. The paintings, not the cave.

Yes, but 26,000 years ago, they weren't in color. Everything back then was black and white until India (WTF?! They worship elephant Gods!) _INVENTED_ the idea of color.


This message is a reply to:
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Nuggin
Member (Idle past 1727 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 118 of 182 (629194)
08-16-2011 10:06 AM
Reply to: Message 97 by IamJoseph
08-16-2011 8:10 AM


Re: "Popular" arguments
Re: "Popular" arguments
Population is based on the time factor, and 60K years would give a population greater than the world by a ratio of ten with compounding increments. The claim is bogus.

No. Population is based on availability of food. It always has been. It always will be.

A population can not exceed it's available food source for any sustained period of time. End of story.

There isn't enough food in pre-aggricultural Australia, to feed trillions, billions or even millions of people.

In the words of the immortal Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr.:
"This guy is a fucking *****!"


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 121 by subbie, posted 08-16-2011 10:18 AM Nuggin has replied

Nuggin
Member (Idle past 1727 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


(1)
Message 119 of 182 (629196)
08-16-2011 10:16 AM
Reply to: Message 99 by IamJoseph
08-16-2011 8:24 AM


What do you get when you raise wrong to the 3rd power?
A rational mind would ask rational questions

How would you know?


. If a human 'painted' a ddrawing of what appears a man made item 30,000 years ago, the following rational factors apply:

1. That humans had previous to this time developed speech, language, agriculture and technical know how of color usage [remember the painting has a red domesticated bison]. Maybe 20K years previously. We have no imprints of any of those factors throughout that period of 20K years.

Wrong on so many levels.
#1) NOT a bison. AND, ABSOLUTELY not a "domesticated" bison.
#2) No you do not need to develop agriculture to paint a picture of an animal
#3) We have PLENTY of evidence for speech prior to cave paintings, both implied through cultural context and physical remains which include the necessarily biological components.
#4) People have know how to "use color" FOREVER.
#5) Where are you getting the number "20k"? Why would someone have to have developed any one, let alone ALL, of these things 20k years prior to painting a picture of a bison.


2. The same issue as above is also seen from the 30K point upto the present time: no graduated or any other kind of imprints in 30K years [discounting the last 6000 years which are recorded as history].

Also extremely wrong. We have painting WORLDWIDE demonstrating a wide range of dates.

Hell, the French caves span 10,000+ years of artwork in and of themselves.


3. The last 6000 years says imprints are continuous of a graduating humanity in advancement and population. But we find a great anomoly with a painting falsely promoted as 30K years old - without a shred of rational surrounding evidence.

Except for "reality", but yes, if you reject reality, it's easy to dismiss evidence.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by IamJoseph, posted 08-16-2011 8:24 AM IamJoseph has taken no action

Nuggin
Member (Idle past 1727 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


(1)
Message 122 of 182 (629200)
08-16-2011 10:24 AM
Reply to: Message 114 by IamJoseph
08-16-2011 10:00 AM


Water water everywhere, and Joseph can not think
This is a myth. Australia is surrounded by H20 and has more water than the middle-east, which is also half desert. Sparse population still cannot justify no evidences at all for 60K years.

Surrounded by _salt water_ which clearly you have been drinking.

AND, you are desperately trying to change topics. "evidences at all for 60k years"??! WTF does that have to do with your claim that there should be 5 trillion Australians.

Could 5 trillion people living in Australia TODAY? Right now? Even with worldwide food production? We wouldn't have enough people over the entire rest of the world to produce and transport enough food fast enough to support that many people in Australia. And we have PLANES.

Clearly population size is limited by resources.

Until you admit that, there's really no reason for you to type anything.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by IamJoseph, posted 08-16-2011 10:00 AM IamJoseph has taken no action

Nuggin
Member (Idle past 1727 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


(1)
Message 123 of 182 (629201)
08-16-2011 10:25 AM
Reply to: Message 120 by frako
08-16-2011 10:16 AM


Re: "Popular" arguments
You really must be living in la la land

As a citizen of La La Land, I reject your insulting implication that we'd ever accept someone like Joseph here.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 120 by frako, posted 08-16-2011 10:16 AM frako has taken no action

Nuggin
Member (Idle past 1727 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 124 of 182 (629202)
08-16-2011 10:26 AM
Reply to: Message 121 by subbie
08-16-2011 10:18 AM


Re: "Popular" arguments
But with 5 trillion people there, think of all the Soylent Green they'd have. They could feed multitudes!

Wait, are you saying that Soylent Green is people?

It's peeeeeeeoppppple?!?!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by subbie, posted 08-16-2011 10:18 AM subbie has replied

Replies to this message:
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Nuggin
Member (Idle past 1727 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


(1)
Message 137 of 182 (629266)
08-16-2011 6:32 PM
Reply to: Message 133 by IamJoseph
08-16-2011 6:24 PM


Re: Call 911
Your frog leaping, as seen in most responses here. The issue was the first recording of life form groupings.

First off, I don't own a frog.

Second, we've been talking about it. You asked where life forms had been recorded prior to the Bible.

I pointed out cave paintings. In response, you claimed that there should be 5 trillion aboriginies. ?!?!

Then YOU brought up the fact that Egyptian heiroglyphics also demonstrate different kinds of animals and predate the bible.

Fantastic. So, between the two of us, that's 2 things which predate your claim.

So, that's that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 133 by IamJoseph, posted 08-16-2011 6:24 PM IamJoseph has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 141 by IamJoseph, posted 08-16-2011 6:43 PM Nuggin has replied

Nuggin
Member (Idle past 1727 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 145 of 182 (629274)
08-16-2011 7:06 PM
Reply to: Message 141 by IamJoseph
08-16-2011 6:43 PM


Re: Call 911
60K cave drawings are not life form groupings - these are just alledged 60K year old drawings; the term specie is a direct lift off from Genesis of a first recording of it with a new name.

Horses are together. Lions are together. Fish are together. Bovines are together.

That's groupings.

Meanwhile the term species is not a "direct lift" from Genesis, no matter how much you like to pretend.

The word "species" does not appear in the Bible.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 141 by IamJoseph, posted 08-16-2011 6:43 PM IamJoseph has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 156 by IamJoseph, posted 08-16-2011 7:28 PM Nuggin has taken no action

Nuggin
Member (Idle past 1727 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 146 of 182 (629275)
08-16-2011 7:08 PM
Reply to: Message 141 by IamJoseph
08-16-2011 6:43 PM


Re: Call 911
Yes, 60K and 30K humans able to perform animal drawings would number in the billions and trillions today. Not to mention mental prowess increments.

Here's a "mental prowess" exercise for you.

If you have 10 people on a boat, and there is food enough to keep 4 people alive for 1 month. How many of them will be alive after 1 year on the boat?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 141 by IamJoseph, posted 08-16-2011 6:43 PM IamJoseph has replied

Replies to this message:
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Nuggin
Member (Idle past 1727 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 147 of 182 (629276)
08-16-2011 7:10 PM
Reply to: Message 143 by IamJoseph
08-16-2011 6:47 PM


Re: "Popular" arguments
Alledged 60K humans who performed animal drawings, with no graduated imprints on the ground thereafter - are 'VIRTUAL'

Alledged jews who pretend "words" represent "animals" with no actual artistic representation to prove to use what they are talking about are "VIRTUAL".

The listing of humans with names, writings, their ages, dod & dobs, locations, unearthed relics, etc - are the non-virtual kind.

Yes, we are aware you have a make believe list. We could pretend to have a make believe list too, but we are adults.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 143 by IamJoseph, posted 08-16-2011 6:47 PM IamJoseph has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 153 by IamJoseph, posted 08-16-2011 7:26 PM Nuggin has replied

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