Buz,
First off, thanks for replying.
There are a few things I’d like to pick up on:
buzsaw writes:
The chance of assembling 50 essential amino acids randomly to correct sequence so as to build a single functional "folded" protein would be about 10 to the 65th power or about one in the number of atoms in a galexy
Aside from the obvious omission of selection (which has-ahem- already been mentioned once or twice), no one is saying that proteins of 50-odd amino acids had to spring out of nothing. I won’t labour the importance of selection, but I will ask you what you think is being selected for in the first place. Once
any type of protein has been produced and selected for then (as Jacinto so aptly demonstrates in
Message 24 ), the twin forces of evolution have a tendency of shortening the odds — climbing mount improbable, as Dawkins puts it.
Creationists like yourself are very fond of quoting these amazing odds, but what effect would these two factors have on the numbers?
1. What if the first proteins were much shorter than the 50aa that you propose?
In the fragile ‘RNA world’ that is postulated by many popular abiogenesis theories, any protein would give some kind of advantage to stability and structure. Once a successful protein sequence was produced then you’re away — life has no need to produce another protein
de novo, it’s already got something to work with and duplicate. When you look at the way that proteins are made up you find that they are quite obviously modular.
There are surprisingly few basic structures made when proteins fold and you see them repeated in all of the different types of proteins. Even more complicated motifs (made up from maybe two or three of these basic modules) are seen repeated throughout nature, and in many cases within the same protein. It is clearly not a matter of starting from scratch, it’s a case of making do with what you’ve already got.
2. What if the number of amino acids wasn’t so large?
There is evidence that the early proteins were made from a genetic code with as little as 4 amino acids, and that these provide enough flexibility for a wide variety of simple structures. That would lead to a lot smaller figure too.
And before you pick up on the various ifs coulds and postulateds within this reply remember that in order to rebut the It’s just not statistically possible! argument, all that I have to do is show that it could reasonably be possible — I think I’ve done that.
Which leads me to this
buzsaw writes:
The likelihood of the bike to motorbike is likely equal or better than the likelihood of building a single single functional protein randomly from primordial soup
This is (as Schraf points out), based purely on personal incredulity. You’re claiming that because you don’t believe some thing is possible then it is fair game to come up with an example of something you think is equally unlikely and then
argue from that second example! People could just as easily say that it is very unlikely that I will spontaneously turn into Kylie Minogue, but I don’t see too many creationists picking apart the steps required to go from slightly overweight, scruffy Brit to stunning Aussie songstress.
It is a very deliberate ploy by the ID movement because bikes and mousetraps can be easily demonstrated to be designed. The argument boils down to: a motorbike is designed, and therefore so is life — but the way a motorbike is produced bares no resemblance to how life works.