Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 64 (9164 total)
3 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,786 Year: 4,043/9,624 Month: 914/974 Week: 241/286 Day: 2/46 Hour: 0/2


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Do Christians Worship Different Gods?
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 18 of 286 (629767)
08-19-2011 8:18 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by GDR
08-18-2011 11:25 PM


Understanding Different Dispensations
GDR writes:
I see Jesus as being the man through whom God revisited His creation, and the man who fulfilled and clarified the Hebrew scriptures. It is my contention that the Hebrew scriptures, or essentially our Old Testament, can only be understood through the lens of the New Testament. With that in mind I believe that much of the Old Testament was strictly men attributing to God that which they dreamed up or which suited their purposes.
For example this is from Deuteronomy 21 vs 18-21:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
18 If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, 19 his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. 20 They shall say to the elders, "This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a profligate and a drunkard." 21 Then all the men of his town shall stone him to death. You must purge the evil from among you. All Israel will hear of it and be afraid.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
GDR, obviously your somewhat of a Biblical novelist who does not understand the difference between the old dispensation of Judaism, the Levitical Law and Jehovah's intent to establish a nation which was to be his messianic nation where his coming messianic king would establish a kingdom of Jehovah on the earth and the new Christian church dispensation of salvation and grace being non-violent in all respects.
The OT law and the OT commands for the Jews to violently wipe out heathenistic cultures in a tiny little spot on the planet and to protect that relative spot pertained to one relatively little group and that alone. It applied to the Jews and the land of Israel alone and to no other nation.
Thus, over the millennia, the Jews have fought and died for that land which Jehovah gave them. They have never attempted to expand their territory outside of that promised land which was promised by Jehovah to the descendents of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
Now, Jesus's first advent was to die for the sins of the people and call out for all who would follow him, enduring the suffering, rather than fight and war. Unlike Joshua, who had an entirely mission from Jehovah, Jesus advocated a total non-violent attitude among his disciples and followers.
Jesus's 2nd advent, soon to come will be different. He, then, will come and destroy the armies of the world which will be assembled at Jerusalem to invade and destroy the Jews, so as for the Palestinians et al to come in and occupy. That is what Armageddon is prophesied to be about.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by GDR, posted 08-18-2011 11:25 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by GDR, posted 08-19-2011 11:13 PM Buzsaw has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 188 of 286 (632753)
09-09-2011 8:45 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by GDR
08-19-2011 11:13 PM


Re: Understanding Different Dispensations
GDR writes:
So you are saying that God not only sanctioned but encouraged genocide in order that the early Jews could hold on to a piece of real estate. (How well did that work by the way?) You then also must agree that the quote from Deuteronomy was also from God and that God decreed that a rebellious child should be stoned by all of the men in the town. You also believe that God encouraged capital punishment for those who broke the Sabbath laws.
No. What I am saying is that God sanctioned genocide on pagan cultures to cleanse a tiny portion of land upon which Jehovah, for himself of whom idolatrous cultures rival, could establish a nation which is to be his messianic kingdom on planet earth to come into fruition in our end times which we observe, i.e. the phenomenal restoration of the nation of Israel after having been scattered globally for 19 plus centuries.
GDR writes:
Now however God tells us that all of that stuff is no longer valid and we are to love our neighbors as ourselves, and that we are to love our enemies.
Exactly! The genocide was to apply to one tiny spot on planet earth: Canaan, which became Israel by Jehovah's providence, the messianic piece of real estate which Jehovah was to sanction for the prophesied restoration of his people, the Jews.
GDR, this is all evidenced by the fact that we are the privileged generation to witness this phenomenal fulfillment of prophecy.
GDR writes:
So what are we left with.
1/ We have a god who changed his mind.
2/ We have a god who sanctions killing and destruction then, but says that the situation doesn't call for it right now. He'll get back to us if it becomes necessary again.
3/ We have a god who did what was necessary then, (apparently to no avail at least on an on-going basis) but with the new agreement he says it is no longer the route to go.
4/ We have a god who was misrepresented by the early Jews and has always maintained the his way for us is the way of love, peace, mercy etc.
Not at all. This is what I meant when I told you that your problem was that you are a Biblical novice who has no clue as to the dispensations and to the fact that what was sanctioned by Jehovah applied only to one tiny nation; the nation of Israel, his proposed messianic nation.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by GDR, posted 08-19-2011 11:13 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 189 by jar, posted 09-09-2011 8:52 PM Buzsaw has seen this message but not replied
 Message 190 by GDR, posted 09-10-2011 2:48 AM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 193 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-12-2011 8:43 AM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 197 by Butterflytyrant, posted 09-12-2011 11:42 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024