Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 63 (9162 total)
5 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 916,331 Year: 3,588/9,624 Month: 459/974 Week: 72/276 Day: 0/23 Hour: 0/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Prophecy vs Free will
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 23 of 168 (629749)
08-19-2011 6:04 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by purpledawn
08-19-2011 12:50 PM


Re: Prediction Doesn't Interfere With Free Will
A prediction doesn't take away one's ability to make choices.
Maybe not. But a prediction could render those choices moot. Would a situation in which all of your choices are meaningless because the final outcome cannot be changed still allow for free will?
My own opinion is that the question of free-will vs. an omniscient Gods' ability to know everything is a silly one. It's on par with asking if God can create a rock so big that he cannot lift it.
Perhaps man has free will, but an infinitely powerful God can still know exactly what choices a given man will make if he makes the effort to do so. Once we postulate infinite power and knowledge, we should not be surprised when paradoxes crop up.
It doesn't matter how Jesus knew. The implication in the story is that Jesus could see ahead or God gave Jesus the knowledge of what would happen.
I think it does matter how Jesus knew. It is possible that Jesus simply knew Peter really well and simply spoke about a likely, although not inevitable outcome.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by purpledawn, posted 08-19-2011 12:50 PM purpledawn has not replied

NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 52 of 168 (629989)
08-21-2011 7:39 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by Butterflytyrant
08-21-2011 10:39 AM


Re: Prediction Doesn't Interfere With Free Will
Specific to the false witness commandment you metioned, lying is not illegal.
False witness means something like perjury and perjury generally is illegal in countries with anything like a judicial system.
IamJ is still way out to lunch, but you are demonstrating why it is a bad idea to wrestle in the mud with a pig. You just get dirty and the pig likes it.
OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message by continuing in this vein.
AdminPD
Edited by AdminPD, : Warning

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by Butterflytyrant, posted 08-21-2011 10:39 AM Butterflytyrant has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by fearandloathing, posted 08-21-2011 7:54 PM NoNukes has replied
 Message 56 by IamJoseph, posted 08-21-2011 9:49 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 61 of 168 (630005)
08-21-2011 11:48 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by fearandloathing
08-21-2011 7:54 PM


Re: Prediction Doesn't Interfere With Free Will
The term "false witness' could be construed to mean many things depending on your point of view. I feel it means telling any lie for any reason.
Let's consider the actual ninth commandment as presented in Deuteronomy 5:20 (KJV)
"Neither shalt thou bear false witness against thy neighbour"
How would telling your wife you liked her dress be any kind of witness against your wife? I think it is pretty clear that the literal meaning of the commandment is not about general lying.
False witnessing might include non-judicial settings, but I don't see the commandment applying to general lying if taken literally. Not that lying is a good thing just because there is not a commandment against it. None of the 10 commandments address aggravated assault, spewing ethnic slurs, or not paying child support.
Here are a few other translations, some of which I think make my point.
New International Version
"You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor.
New Living Translation
"You must not testify falsely against your neighbor.
English Standard Version
And you shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
New American Standard Bible
'You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
GOD'S WORD Translation (1995)
"Never avoid the truth when you testify about your neighbor.
American King James Version
Neither shall you bear false witness against your neighbor.
American Standard Version
Neither shalt thou bear false witness against thy neighbor.
Bible in Basic English
Do not give false witness against your neighbour;
Douay-Rheims Bible
Neither shalt thou bear false witness against thy neighbour.
Darby Bible Translation
Neither shalt thou bear false witness against thy neighbour.
English Revised Version
Neither shalt thou bear false witness against thy neighbour.
Webster's Bible Translation
Neither shalt thou bear false witness against thy neighbor.
World English Bible
"Neither shall you give false testimony against your neighbor.
Young's Literal Translation
'Thou dost not answer against thy neighbour -- a false testimony.
Geneva Study Bible
Neither shalt thou bear false witness against thy neighbor.
I think the key thing is that the lie must hurt your neighbor. The commandment surely did not require telling the German's that the Frank family is hiding in your house even if they asked.
OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message by continuing in this vein.
AdminPD
Edited by AdminPD, : Warning

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by fearandloathing, posted 08-21-2011 7:54 PM fearandloathing has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by IamJoseph, posted 08-22-2011 12:48 AM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024