Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 63 (9045 total)
78 online now:
dwise1, nwr, PaulK, Percy (Admin) (4 members, 74 visitors)
Newest Member: Dade
Post Volume: Total: 887,365 Year: 5,011/14,102 Month: 609/707 Week: 7/157 Day: 7/22 Hour: 3/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   The Essence Of Faith & Belief.
Omnivorous
Member (Idle past 605 days)
Posts: 3811
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005


(1)
Message 118 of 189 (765830)
08-06-2015 5:30 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by Phat
12-02-2014 10:17 AM


Re: What Is Truth?
Phat writes:

.(seeing how satan hates giving money away )

That's not fair.

In my experience, the devil is far more free with his cash than, say, preachers.

And all those prosperity churches had to come from somewhere--Jesus wouldn't fund them.


"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by Phat, posted 12-02-2014 10:17 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 119 by Phat, posted 08-06-2015 8:40 PM Omnivorous has responded

  
Omnivorous
Member (Idle past 605 days)
Posts: 3811
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005


Message 120 of 189 (765852)
08-06-2015 10:58 PM
Reply to: Message 119 by Phat
08-06-2015 8:40 PM


Re: What Is Truth?
Phat writes:

A fool and his money are soon parted.

Lovely English proverb, isn't it? More fishwife-like than Christ-like, though.

My ongoing point with Ringo[...]

I noticed that

[...]is that one should use wisdom when giving money away.

Perhaps, like me, Ringo hears quite a bit more "use wisdom" than "give money away." Jesus certainly didn't outline a process for grading the poor to sort out the deserving.

I understand that no one wants to waste money, especially what we can afford to give away. But I'm accustomed to Christians testifying about their faith in the face of great unknowns and trials, so it seems odd: face the lions with panache, sure, but follow Christ's injunction (and Christ) by helping the first and next persons you see in need of help...well, that's just too dicey. How will God know who deserves my help? How will He put them in my path? I just can't believe that bit.

Consider that the person most in need of help, by your rubric, will usually be the person appearing least deserving of it. The person most eligible for help is going to look a lot like you. Should you be right, and Jesus return, which one do you think he'd look like?

--------------------------------------------------

NB:

Now, you know I'm not a Christian, so you're probably thinking some of that criticism just ain't fair. Well, it wasn't criticism so much as commentary on the central fault in modern Christianity--it married money.

Me, I'm more pagan anarchist than anything, prone to giving money away on impulse, guilty of handing out beers to bums walking through the Fens on New Year's eve in Boston. Hell, even winos deserve a drink on New Year's eve. If I happened to run into Jesus there, I definitely gave him a beer.

Edited by Omnivorous, : Nice bunch of guys, too.


"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 119 by Phat, posted 08-06-2015 8:40 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 121 by Faith, posted 08-07-2015 1:11 AM Omnivorous has responded
 Message 129 by NoNukes, posted 08-07-2015 2:55 PM Omnivorous has responded

  
Omnivorous
Member (Idle past 605 days)
Posts: 3811
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005


Message 124 of 189 (765857)
08-07-2015 6:07 AM
Reply to: Message 121 by Faith
08-07-2015 1:11 AM


Re: What Is Truth?
Faith writes:

Christian mission to an African nation finances businesses for poor people, such as selling things in the local market. Discovered that although the business is successful, brings in money, and the new entrepreneur faithfully minds the store, the money he makes goes to drinking and gambling and prostitutes and his wife and children are still living at starvation level. Mission concludes that there's a cultural mindset that has to change before it makes sense to throw money at the problem.

What do you think?

I think you can still feed the wife and kid; and if there's money to be thrown, throw it at them. Also, I think the polarized pastiche you describe--the industrious entrepreneur who is also a wastrel--is not so common. But the man who finds prosperity with the help of others, thinks it's his just desserts and devotes it to selfish pursuits...well, we have lots of Christians like that here, too.

Family planning services for women are good, too, since nothing else so improves the economic lot of women and children.

As you might imagine, I have other thoughts and feelings about Christian missions, but at present I'm mulling over Phat's response to Christ's challenge to the individual Christian. Nonetheless, I find myself asking the same question, now applied to an organization: Why so little faith in the simple, direct charitable acts prescribed by Jesus?


"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by Faith, posted 08-07-2015 1:11 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
Omnivorous
Member (Idle past 605 days)
Posts: 3811
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005


Message 132 of 189 (765909)
08-07-2015 4:14 PM
Reply to: Message 129 by NoNukes
08-07-2015 2:55 PM


Re: What Is Truth?
I wasn't disparaging ringo's giving or any other kind of giving. I was exploring the likely results of Phat's criteria for determining who merits help. I don't think he's substituting pro bono work, targeted donations or soup kitchen drudgery for spontaneous empathy.

I salute all who give. I was pawing after the whiff of hypocrisy, not the scent of difference.


"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 129 by NoNukes, posted 08-07-2015 2:55 PM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2021