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Author Topic:   The Essence Of Faith & Belief.
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 150 of 189 (871925)
02-16-2020 12:33 PM
Reply to: Message 146 by Faith
02-16-2020 11:52 AM


Re: Voices heard by mental patients
Curious what you observed there, or think others observe, and how it removes all doubt about the reality of inner voices. I'm familiar with schizophrenics who hear voices that often tell them what to do, but I don't think it's clear at all whether they are real or not._ What makes you think it's so clear?


Schizophrenics are literally hearing voices. The part of the brain that activates for literal sounds being made also lights up in the brains of schizophrenics. Their brain is actually perceiving literal sound, albeit no sound has actually been emitted in reality. So to the schizophrenic, the voices are real because their brain cannot distinguish between a real voice and one they have imagined.

Most people, when they speak of God communicating to them, describe a quiet, still voice in their mind. Think of you verbalizing these words as you are reading them -- as if you were actually vocalizing the words. Based on your experiences, you are imagining yourself narrating the words in your mind. This is what most people talk about with a godly experience. This is completely different in schizophrenia where they are interpreting literal voices. All of the people that I have ever heard explaining their experience with auditory hallucinations are troubled by them...

As to biblical descriptions of God speaking to people, Acts of course details Paul on the road to Damascus. He has two riders with him. In the book of Acts there are two separate verses recounting the same story. In one verse it says the riders HEARD the voice but did not see Jesus. In the other part of the same book it says the riders accompanying Paul SAW the vision but did not hear the voice. First of all, that's deeply problematic if you are literalist and an inerrantist because that's an unmistakable, unavoidably clear contradiction.

I am not sure if there is anywhere else in the bible that describes a literal AUDITORY speaking of God -- a booming voice emanating from above. Everywhere its more closely described as, well, you thinking about what a voice would sound like in your mind. Those are distinguishing features if you ask me. So what is your interpretation in light of that?

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 146 by Faith, posted 02-16-2020 11:52 AM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 157 by Phat, posted 02-16-2020 2:23 PM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 166 of 189 (871956)
02-16-2020 4:05 PM
Reply to: Message 161 by Faith
02-16-2020 2:54 PM


Re: Voices heard by mental patients
Demons are smart but sometimes they give themselves away.


Jesus was the most harsh on the religious zealots. The only two times he lost his shit was against the Chief Priests and gamblers/traders who used the Temple as some kind of open air market. Beyond that, he was very accommodating with sinners.

Now we live in an age where televangelists and churches openly sell merchandise and do whatever they can to extort people's money. You keep talking about "demons" and usually level it towards people of leftist ideology. The farthest you will go is against the RCC but you never seem to have any qualms with televangelists -- who knowingly, openly, and joyously rob little old ladies blind in the name of God.... And you say nothing about how demonic that is.

The answer is staring you right in the face, but you refuse to look. Trump is as close as one could possibly get to being the very antithesis of holy and yet you don't see it because you are oblivious to his cheap lip service and OBVIOUS, self-serving pandering.

You talk about demons without mentioning televangelists.... And you know what the bible says. Is it because it is an unflattering part of Christianity? By their fruits you will recognize them... but you don't see it.

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 161 by Faith, posted 02-16-2020 2:54 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 167 by Faith, posted 02-16-2020 4:15 PM Hyroglyphx has responded

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


(3)
Message 168 of 189 (871984)
02-17-2020 10:58 AM
Reply to: Message 167 by Faith
02-16-2020 4:15 PM


Re: YOU NEED TO TAKE THAT BACK
I HAVE NEVER EVER EVER connected demons with leftists or the RCC IN GENERAL and I HAVE mentioned televangelists here and there as false teachers. Do not confuse what I say about demons with any particular people group because I never have and I never do.


Not even a week ago you said that the RCC and, specifically, the Pope is the ANTI-CHRIST... but now I'm jumping to conclusions about your beliefs when it comes to demon possession?

Secondly, in the spirit of Jesus, I would think that more consternation against televangelists would be material to your choices in topics. I will not say that you have never spoken about them, but I can't recall any times where you excoriate them for the scum they are. But there is ample times where you choose to vilify leftist ideology over that. That much is incontestable.

AND YEAH, I am not going to vilify his character the way you do. You all seem to think you can read his mind, you're so sure of his motivations. People are to be judged on their actions, you have no right to judge people on their motivations when you have no direct knowldge of them. People who do that are more likely to have a demon than he is!!!!! because that is a VERY evil thing to do, to judge a person like that.


Oh, but when Barry was in office you had no problem rubbing his face in the dirt and drawing all sorts of inferences about him! Don't play the victim, Faith. You've made plenty of assumptions about plenty of people over the years. By their fruits you will recognize them.... and the fact that you can't recognize a politician (Trump) who has obviously bamboozled you into believing he gives a fraction of a fuck about Jesus just to pander to a specific base makes me question the depth of your knowledge about the bible.

There are a lot secular Republicans who follow Trump for whatever reason. That's fine, whatever. But it bothers me to no end that so many Christians revere a man who embodies almost every virtue that is antithetical to Christian doctrine. You, Glenn Beck, Mike Huckabee, etc, should be warning people about Trump, not steering them towards him.

Somehow in this country, Americana and Christianity morphed together as if they were analogous to one another when they aren't. Now we have bible verses embedded on weapons of war, but we get pissy when Muslims kill people in the name of Allah. What's the goddamn difference??? Its irreverence in the name of reverence either way.

Its funny.... you've spent all this time talking about the Anti-Christ without making the connection that a person like Trump fits the narrative nicely. That is astonishing! He doesn't give a crap about you, or the poor, or the destitute, or anyone or anything that Jesus would care about... and yet you follow him to your own destruction. Well done.

You have preachers, who in the NAME OF THE MOST HIGH GOD, unceremoniously rob people and so many Christians remain silent. That is shameful, that is despicable, and I find it egregious that true Christians don't call them out more often. If they do, its a postscript. Televangelists should be on the top of your hit list, because they certainly were considered the worst of the worst by your Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ...... AMEN!!!!!

You know, just because I seriously question the validity of the bible as a whole doesn't mean that it doesn't still hold a place in my heart. While I may lean more heavily towards it not being real, I have never discounted all of it and I certainly am still of the belief that much of what Jesus taught was beautiful and virtuous.

Without asking for permission to make assumptions from other people on the forum, I know that the majority of the people that are critical of Christians are really only critical for one major reason.... and that reason is HYPOCRISY! Even the staunchest atheist has enough sense to be disgusted by duplicity and deceit in the name of God. Even they have a measure of respect for what God is supposed to mean, even if they think its ultimately man-made, to see people who genuinely believe and use that belief to destroy instead of to build, to tear apart instead of edify, to cast aspersions instead of being kind and forgiving, and to spend more time showing you why you're wrong instead of spending time assisting those in need.

Edited by Hyroglyphx, : No reason given.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 167 by Faith, posted 02-16-2020 4:15 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 169 by Faith, posted 02-17-2020 4:52 PM Hyroglyphx has responded
 Message 174 by Raphael, posted 02-18-2020 3:54 PM Hyroglyphx has responded

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 170 of 189 (872000)
02-17-2020 5:21 PM
Reply to: Message 169 by Faith
02-17-2020 4:52 PM


Re: YOU NEED TO TAKE THAT BACK
YOU NEED TO TAKE IT BACK AND APOLOGIZE.


I'm sorry that I'm not sorry

I consider it important to expose the RCC and the Pope based on what the Protestant Reformers said, and especially on the subject of the end times Tribulation. Finally I suggested that the Antichrist will probably be possessed by Satan. Otherwise I've said NOTHING about demon possession in relation to the RCC in general. TAKE IT BACK AND APOLOGIZE.


Oh, I'm sorry that Satan, the king of the demons, is not the same as demon possession. LOL, my bad!!!!

The televangelists have not come up in any context here that I recall. CONTEXT is the point. I could list lots of apostate Christian groups in the right context, including the televangelists, they are everywhere these days, but the Pope is THE ANTICHRIST and that's a special category. And again you accused me of imputing demons to the RCC in general, and offer no evidence that I ever did that. TAKE IT BACK AND APOLOGIZE.


I'm suggesting that you are not as hip to your own religion as you make yourself out to be. This has a lot less to do with demon possession and a lot more about your inability to understand the fundamentals of your own religion. TAKE IT BACK AND APOLOGIZE TO JESUS CHRIST, YOUR LORD AND SAVIOUR!!!!!

Obama was raised a Communist, nobody has to make that up. And he has family in Kenya and a grandmother who said he was born there before she said "oops" and changed her mind. Nobody had to make that up. But you and the Left make up Trump's THOUGHTS for pete's sake, you accuse him based on what you THINK HE MEANT. Nobody ever did that with Obama. TAKE IT BACK AND APOLOGIZE.


Trumps THOUGHTS are reflections of his ACTIONS and his own WORDS, dear. This is straight from the horses mouth.

Trump is an ordinary sinner who is doing good for the country. You on the Left are hallucinating motives he does not have. You arfe the one commit egregious injustice to the President and his supporters. You are consumed by "Trump derangement syndrome." It's all made up, it's all hallucinated, not one word of it is true.


LOL, okay.... First of all, ask anyone here... I'm not on "the Left." I actually get accused more of being an Alt-Right fascist. I mean, sure, compared to you I might as well be Joseph Stalin, but to everyone else I'm either hard or moderate to the Right.

But this is quite amusing given the fact that Donald J. Trump was a registered Democrat (you know, a Leftist), for the overwhelming majority of his life. He just found a way to switch sides and pretend that Scrooge McDuck, who's never tasted poverty, somehow cares about the plight of middle America and a man who has never accepted Jesus Christ but somehow has become his mouthpiece.

The wool has been pulled over your eyes!!!!

As to my vilification of Trump, I defend him where I think he needs to be defended. I think he's done a far better job than I initially gave him credit for. How much credit goes to him is debatable but I'm willing to make concessions as they appear appropriate. But make no mistake that whatever my misgivings about Trump are, and there are many, it comes directly from his own mouth or his infantile Tweets. I think he's got some really stupid and destructive views. If you'd like to go over that I'd happy to... but on another thread more suited to such a political topic.

My invocation of Trump on this thread was to demonstrate that you like to play fast and loose with Christianity when it suits you. Trump is not a Christian anymore than Creflo Dollar is.... he's a charlatan.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 169 by Faith, posted 02-17-2020 4:52 PM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 171 by PaulK, posted 02-18-2020 12:19 PM Hyroglyphx has responded

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 172 of 189 (872018)
02-18-2020 12:55 PM
Reply to: Message 171 by PaulK
02-18-2020 12:19 PM


Re: YOU NEED TO TAKE THAT BACK
Is this real life???


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 171 by PaulK, posted 02-18-2020 12:19 PM PaulK has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 173 by Phat, posted 02-18-2020 3:53 PM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 176 of 189 (872029)
02-18-2020 5:04 PM
Reply to: Message 175 by Faith
02-18-2020 4:36 PM


Re: YOU NEED TO TAKE THAT BACK
Hyroglyphx isn't the one who needs the guts here. He's the one with the establishment behind him. I'm the one with the unpopular point of view.


It has less to do with your views than it does your attitude.

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 175 by Faith, posted 02-18-2020 4:36 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 177 by Faith, posted 02-18-2020 10:43 PM Hyroglyphx has responded

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 178 of 189 (872042)
02-18-2020 11:02 PM
Reply to: Message 177 by Faith
02-18-2020 10:43 PM


Re: YOU NEED TO TAKE THAT BACK
I post them because I think they are useful information that people need to know. That's my "attitude" as far as I know. So despite your denial, it must be my views you don't like, to which you attach some hallucinated "attitude" you impute to me.


I don't want to drag this into ad hominem anymore than it needs to, but its your delivery, lack of tact and inability to listen that irks people. That is the last thing that I will say about your character and will stick with the topic at hand. If you'd like to PM to continue I'd be happy to go over it in more detail otherwise lets stick with the topic.

We are all surrounded by demons by the way and they influence us wherever they can whenever they can. They are certainly behind the proliferation of false religions in this world, which it really would be a good thing for people to know about but they've also blinded people so that they deny even the reality of demons. Then they mock and vilify those who talk about them, from the only source of true information about them we happen to have, i.e. the Bible of course.


Let me ask you something... You've read Isaiah, Daniel, Revelations, etc, right? You know the ending of the story and their eventual fate. Why are you and Christians so terrified of "demons?" Do you really have such little faith in God's ability that demons keep you up at night? It must be convenient to have a perennial scapegoat to explain away all the bad things in this world, but why you are so hyper-focused on them is kind of amazing. O' ye of little faith! Walk a straight path with God and they can't touch you... unless of course your name is Job and God allows Satan access to torment you just to prove something in a pissing contest... then you're pretty screwed. But I digress...

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 177 by Faith, posted 02-18-2020 10:43 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 180 by Faith, posted 02-18-2020 11:30 PM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded
 Message 181 by Faith, posted 02-18-2020 11:33 PM Hyroglyphx has responded

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 179 of 189 (872044)
02-18-2020 11:18 PM
Reply to: Message 174 by Raphael
02-18-2020 3:54 PM


Re: YOU NEED TO TAKE THAT BACK
Hey man. Been a few years since I've been on EvC, I don't remember you from back in the day. I suppose I'm sort of a ghost these days . Anyway. As a believer myself, I really appreciate this post. Poignant and necessary. Thanks for having the courage to say it.


You might have remembered me as the artist formerly known as Nemesis_Juggernaut, aka Nem Jugs, aka Nemmy, aka NJ.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 174 by Raphael, posted 02-18-2020 3:54 PM Raphael has not yet responded

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 182 of 189 (872047)
02-18-2020 11:38 PM
Reply to: Message 181 by Faith
02-18-2020 11:33 PM


Re: YOU NEED TO TAKE THAT BACK
Who says I'm "terrified" of demons? You haven't one iota of evidence for that notion. I have no such feeling nor have I ever expressed any such feeling. You are hallucinating it. You are accusing me of demons in your own head. And again, you owe me an apology. I am not a figment of your imagination, I am a separate human being who does not fit your hallucinated image.


You talk about them incessantly, talk about their power, their cleverness, etc. Its obvious that you fear them and their power. I'm wondering why if you're "cloaked with the full armor of the Lord."

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 181 by Faith, posted 02-18-2020 11:33 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 183 by Faith, posted 02-18-2020 11:48 PM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded
 Message 184 by Faith, posted 02-19-2020 2:13 AM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

  
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