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Author Topic:   Is agnosticism more intellectually honest?
Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


(1)
Message 17 of 95 (630560)
08-26-2011 8:44 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Wollysaurus
08-25-2011 2:54 PM


Sometimes
Hello Wollysaurus,
We are people. We like things to be simple and put them under nice labels and have everything organized and proper. It's just easier that way.
But people aren't simple. We don't fit in boxes very well. Even if we did, people are also fickle and change their minds.
In general, about the only thing you can be sure of when someone claims to be an atheist is that they don't believe in God. This can range from "simply lacking a belief in God" to being "absolutely, 100% sure that God does not exist".
And, on top of that, there are even levels of non-belief. Do you mean in the general, practical sense? Or in a rigorous, theoretical, knowledge-of-the-universe sense?
Wollysaurus writes:
However, none of that seems to dismiss the possibility that there is/was a higher power responsible for what *is*. It's as impossible to disprove that a god (or whatever you want to call it) started this whole ball rolling, when we can't seem to get past certain points in history (abiogenesis, big bang, whatever).
To me, atheism isn't about disproving that a god started the whole ball rolling, atheism isn't about disproving anything. Atheism is about being intellectually honest about how someone acts towards the idea of God.
I act as if God does not exist. I don't go to church, I don't pray, I don't consult God over matters of my heart, I don't plead for God's approval or support, I don't ask for God's help, I don't fear God or love Him. Since I live my life in a way that assumes God does not exist, it is only intellectually honest of me to say that I am an atheist.
If I were to say "I am agnostic towards God". This would imply that I respect God's possible existence in some way. That some part of my life... somewhere... says "I should do this, because God may exist." But, I never consider such a thing when deciding my actions.
As the saying goes... actions speak louder than words. And, in practical terms, I certainly am not agnostic towards God and it is only honest of me to say that I am an atheist because that is how I live my life.
If someone asks you, "Do you believe in Thor?" Can you honestly say that you are agnostic just because you can't disprove his thunderous existence? Such a thing, while living and making decisions as if Thor does not exist, seems dishonest to me.
So, is atheism as intellectually dishonest as, say, a YEC twisting evidence to fit a flood model?
I agree that it is intellectually dishonest to say "I know, with 100% certainty, that the concept of having a higher power being responsible for what *is*... is absolutely false, even on a theoretical level." But to imply that such an idea is what the word "atheist" means... is simply incorrect.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Wollysaurus, posted 08-25-2011 2:54 PM Wollysaurus has not replied

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


(3)
Message 24 of 95 (630591)
08-26-2011 2:06 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Wollysaurus
08-26-2011 10:01 AM


This is the place
Wollysaurus writes:
I definitely concede that my question was flawed and that my own overly simplistic definitions are largely to blame.
Well, that's quite the negative way to say you learned something
My definition of "atheist" obviously doesn't square with some of your very well thought out replies. Maybe that is because when I say "theist" "atheist" or "agnostic" my perceptions are shaped more by popular reaction than philosophical depth.
Yeah, well... it's kinda what we do here. Some have been doing it for years. A few have even been doing it for decades.
Your question was kind of like walking into a zoo, going up to the zoo keeper and saying "I want to see the monkeys!!!11." Yes, that's very nice, but the zoo likely has many different species of monkeys
But, really... you're absolutely right. In general, most folk haven't been thinking about these things for years or decades. And those words certainly do have main-stream ideas tied to them.
That is a powerful and emotional trigger for many people.
Truer words have not been spoken.
I've found that if you find these sorts of things interesting to talk about and discuss... this is the place to do so. Lots to learn and lots to do, and you don't have to worry (too much) about offending folks.
I'm still pretty scared to discuss such things face-to-face with friends or family. The emotional attachments and possible pain is just something I don't want to be a part of. Here, however, is the time and place for such talk. People here want to examine their emotional attachments... or, at least, they want others to...
Hope you stick around for a while... it's kinda nice and refreshing here, too

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Wollysaurus, posted 08-26-2011 10:01 AM Wollysaurus has not replied

  
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