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Author Topic:   Ontological arguments - where's the beef?
Larni
Member
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 19 of 74 (632158)
09-06-2011 3:19 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by Bolder-dash
09-06-2011 12:02 AM


Re: my short response:
I guess I can think of a whole heck of a lot of things that you can't prove are possible.

Such as?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Bolder-dash, posted 09-06-2011 12:02 AM Bolder-dash has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by Bolder-dash, posted 09-06-2011 8:09 AM Larni has responded

  
Larni
Member
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 21 of 74 (632178)
09-06-2011 8:20 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by Bolder-dash
09-06-2011 8:09 AM


Re: my short response:
You are confusing an activity with an entity. There are things that cannot be done but we have evidence that they cannot be done. You start by saying not existing and then switch your meaning to cannot be done.

There is no evidence for or against Mod's Maximal being, only philosophical arguments.

So you point about Mazdas is about doing something (a verb), rather about an entity's (a noun) existence.

Two very different things.

Edited by Larni, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Bolder-dash, posted 09-06-2011 8:09 AM Bolder-dash has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by Bolder-dash, posted 09-06-2011 8:52 AM Larni has responded

  
Larni
Member
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


(3)
Message 25 of 74 (632194)
09-06-2011 9:24 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by Bolder-dash
09-06-2011 8:52 AM


Once more with feeling.
Mod writes:

I can provide proof that it is possible to draw a King of Hearts from a standard deck of cards. Can anyone provide similar proof that an MGB could exist?

Here Mod draws the distinction between doing and being.

Mod writes:

I question the claim that it is possible that a maximally great being exists, and want to see the argument, along with the evidence which confirms it is possible.

As far as I can see from this post Mod is clarifying he is describing an entity, not an activity.

B-d writes:

I guess I can think of a whole heck of a lot of things that you can't prove are possible.

My understanding is that you were follwing Mod's point of an entity, here.

Larni writes:

Such as?

Here I ask for an example of an entity (following on from my understanding of Mod's point and your reply).

B-d writes:

Stacking ten Mazda sedans on top of each other. Eating four bananas, three cherries and one small mango in exactly 4 minutes and 23 seconds. Singing three verses of Fiddler on the Roof while standing within four meters of the Grand Canyon....

These are activities, rather than entities.

Frankly the OP talks about an entity from the outset. It is not until you post about Mazdas that there was a change from a maximal great being to someone doing something.

So again I ask the question: such as?


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 Message 23 by Bolder-dash, posted 09-06-2011 8:52 AM Bolder-dash has not yet responded

  
Larni
Member
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 26 of 74 (632195)
09-06-2011 9:27 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by Bolder-dash
09-06-2011 8:52 AM


Re: my short response:
There is no evidence (according to Mod's point) that one can or can not stack 10 Mazadas on top of each other. Therefore it can not be assumed to be possible.

Rather than assume it is not possible one should say we do not know at this point in time if it is possible.


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 Message 23 by Bolder-dash, posted 09-06-2011 8:52 AM Bolder-dash has not yet responded

  
Larni
Member
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 31 of 74 (632210)
09-06-2011 11:09 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by Bolder-dash
09-06-2011 10:37 AM


Re: my short response:
What evidence could one give of something being possible, without actually demonstrating something to be?

Something being present is cast iron evidence that 'it' exists but something not being present is not evidence that it does not exist.

Simply that it is not there.

So if the maximal being is presented one can say 'yes he exist in 100% possiblity'.

If the maximal being is not present the most you can say is 'I don't know if he exists'.

If on the other hand you searched under every rock in the universe at every point in time and found no maximal being, what could we say then?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by Bolder-dash, posted 09-06-2011 10:37 AM Bolder-dash has not yet responded

  
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