Importance of Original Sin

Hi Jay,Just a couple of quick questions.How many places could the physical man Jesus be in at once?If the physical man Jesus is in us why did he say:

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John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

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16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

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Luke 24:49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

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What was Jesus talking about in this statement?

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John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

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Why did Paul make this statement:

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Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

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Why did Jesus tell Nicodemus:

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John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

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It seems to me the Spirit of God is the one who indwells mankind sealing his spirit until the day of redemption, and leading us in all truth.The problem is most people that claim to be a christian does not have the Spirit of God indwelling in them.Now my two cents on original sin.There is no discussion of original sin in the Bible.The man formed from the dust of the ground in Genesis 2:7 that God breathed the breath of life into was a perfect man without sin.He alone was commanded not to eat of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.He was told the day he ate of that fruit he would die.The woman was deceived and she ate the fruit. Her eyes were not opened at that time. She then gave to her husband and he chose to eat the fruit, he was not deceived. After the man ate the forbiden fruit
their eyes were opened and they realized they were naked.The only way you can come up with the term original sin is that this was the first sin that was ever comitted by mankind. Up until this time God walked with mankind and talked with them.From the time God sent them out of the Garden man was separated from God because of that first sin. According to Paul that initial separation caused the separation of all mankind that followed and all are under the penalty of death.Someone has said there was death before this man was formed from the dust of the ground.According to Genesis 2:5 there was no living life form that existed before the man formed in Genesis 2:7. That being the case death did not exist until this man disobeyed God and chose to eat of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.God Bless,

Hi hooah, Where in the story found in Genesis chapter 3 does it mention an apple? Where in Genesis chapter 2 and 3 does it mention eating the fruit to be a sin?

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Genesis 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

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2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

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The man was simply given a rule not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.God said nothing about sin, just disobedience.The man was told that if he ate of the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil he would die. That was the consequences for not obeying God.As you know I believe the man died the same day he ate the fruit. The man formed from the dust of the ground that God breathed the breath of life into was perfect, yet he had the ability to disobey God's command by his own freewill.That was the purpose of the tree and it makes no difference what kind of tree it was as it was the one God specified. And that man and woman would still be in the Garden walking and talking with God and you and I would have never existed.Disobedience was introduced.We have been conditioned to call disobedience sin. But disobedience to God is just disobedience to God regardless of what we call it.Since we are under the New Testament of Jesus Christ so called by His disciples who could not understand that He was God in human flesh.God came down to the Earth and was hung on a cross where He willing gave His life so mankind could be restored to the position the man He formed from the dust of the ground occupied in the Garden. That man could walk and talk with God in right relationship.

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John 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

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3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

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3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

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3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

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3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

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These verses tell us that the Son of man must be crucified that mankind would not perish if he believed in Him.Verse 16 gives the reason that death had to occure which was God's love for His creation.Verse 17 tells us that God the Son did not come to condemn the world. Mankind was condemned already.Verse 18 tells us mankind is condemned because he has not believed in the only begotten Son of God.So nobody has to do anything in order to spend eternity in the lake of fire that was prepared for the devil and his angels.That is a fact unless mankind will receive the free full pardon offered by God of eternal life with Him.Mankind has a choice that they can exercise their freewill and obey God and live with Him forever or they can say no to His offer. The consequences of not accepting God's offer is eternal separation from God.God Bless,

Hi PD, Can you point to any verse in the Bible that says mankind is condemned for their sins?John recorded a conversation Jesus had with Nicodemus in chapter 3 where He tells Nicodemus he had to be born of the spirit to see the kingdom of heaven.Jesus in this conversation tell Nicodemus that mankind is condemned already.He did not say mankind was condemned because of sins (bad things he had done).Jesus did say:

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John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

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So mankind is not condemned because of his sins.Jesus said mankind was condemned because of unbelief.Jesus did not say mankind was condemned because of their behavior.God Bless,

Hi Jay, Your imagination took a wrong turn.If the man formed from the dust of the ground in Genesis 2:7 had not chosen to willfully disobey God and eat the fruit if the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you would never have existed.Had that man not eaten of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil he would still be living in the garden walking and talking with God.He would not have been chased out of the garden and there would have been no guard placed to protect the tree of life from the man who had been separated from God by his disobedience.Man had to be reconciled to a right relationship with God.Thus a redeemer was required. The first man had a right relationship with God but chose to disobey God and become separated from God in an unright relationship.God in a form we call Jesus came to repair that relationship.He gave His life so mankind could be restored to a right relationship to God.His only requirement is that we accept the gift of eternal life with Him which He has offered to all mankind.Mankind can choose to accept that gift or they can refuse to accept the gift it is their choice.God Bless,

Hi jar, Where does the text say anything about knowing right from wrong?God Bless,

Hi CS, You never saw the show Francis the talking mule, or Mr Ed the talking horse.You have never seen a dummy sitting on a man's knee talking.What problem would the devil have in speaking through a snake?As far as the magic fruit there was no magic about it. It could have been any kind of fruit. The tree was simpily the one God specifically told the man he was not to eat from, because if he did he would die. No people alive on Earth today descended from the man formed from the dust of the Ground in Genesis 2:7.All mankind living today are descended from the mankind that was created male and female in Genesis 1:27. Which says nothing about how many mankind male or female was created in Genesis 1:27.God Bless,

Hi Straggler, I was simply asking a theological question.

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Where does the text say anything about knowing right from wrong?

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Nowhere in the text does it say anything about knowing right from wrong.The man was forbiden from eating the fruit from a specific tree, in fact he was told the day he ate that fruit he would die.Nothing said about knowing whether it was right or wrong just a commandment not to eat the fruit from the tree.

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Genesis 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

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2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

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This is what the text says.This is what I understand jar to say the text says:Modified Genesis 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of right and wrong, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.Thus implying the man did not know right from wrong and thus was not guilty of disobeying God.It makes no difference whether the man knew right from wrong he did know he was commanded not to eat the fruit of the specified tree.God Bless,

Hi CS, Paul did not write "So it was written".Paul wrote:
καί οϋτω(ς) γράφωThe first word is kai a conjunction connecting this sentence to the previous sentence.The second word is hout(s) an adverb meaning in this manner.The third word is graph a verb which means to write or written.So Paul said, "And, in this manner written". "So" was a choice of the translators as was the insertion of "it is".God Bless,

Hi NoNukes, Well if the serpent was not being spoken through by the devil who was he being controled by?Serpents can't talk can they? Yet this one did talk. But in this paradise perfect world all the animals might have been able to speak.Those of us who make it to the New Jerusalem John wrote about in Revelation will find out won't we.You do know the devil is refered to many times in the Bible as a serpent don't you? What magical effects?The only thing that happened was when the man not the woman ate the fruit their eyes were opened and they saw they were naked.What was magical about them knowing they were naked?They did decide they needed clothes and covered themselves with fig leaves. Which is a lot more material than some try to cover their nakedness with today.God Bless,

Hi Straggler, If it is possible for you to put yourself in the first mans place please do so and lets look at what he observed.The man was formed from the dust of the ground in Genesis 2:7:

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2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

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This man was the first living life form on the face of the Earth.

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Genesis 2:5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.

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There was no plants of anykind alive so there was no animals of anykind alive.So the man of Genesis 2:7 was looking at a barren Earth.Now lets see what he observed, besides a barren Earth that had no water, no plants, and no animals.

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Genesis 2:8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

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So this man observed plants that came into existence after he did.

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2:9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

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He then observed trees to grow out of the ground.

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Genesis 2:10 And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.

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He saw a river begin to exist.

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Genesis 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

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He saw animals, and fowls that began to exist.

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Genesis 2:22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.

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2:23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

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God brought a woman to him and he knew she was cloned from a bone from his body.Now if you saw all these things and the being that you saw do them told you not to eat the fruit of a specific tree, would you disobey that being?The man formed from the dust of the ground in Genesis 2:7 had every right to believe that God could and would do exactly what He said He would do if he ate the fruit from the forbiden tree.Now if you want to mix this story up with the story in Genesis 1:2 throught Genesis 2:3 in which the man was created in the image/likeness of God on day six which was not told he could not eat of a specific tree, you could come to the conclusion why should I obey?God Bless,

Hi iano, What cause was given to the first man to disobey and eat the fruit?He knew the consequences was death.God Bless,

Hi PD, I am not adding to anything.I simply gave what was recorded in the verses I presented.Either it is true or it is false you have the choice of exercising your freewill and accept what is written or reject it.God Bless,

Hi iano, Where did Satan or the serpent make that offer to the man?God Bless,

Hi Straggler, Cause the consequences of disobedience to occure.The consequences for disobedience was death.God Bless,

Hi iano, I don't see where that says the serpent said unto the man.I can't find anywhere the serpent talked to the man.I can find where the man blamed God and the woman for the problem as he said:

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Genesis 3:12 And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.

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God said to the man:

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Genesis 3:17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

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So the man listened to his wife not the serpent.If you pay close attention to the text of 3:6,7 you will notice the womans eyes were not opened when she ate the fruit.Their eyes was open after the man disobeyed God and ate the fruit.God Bless,