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Author Topic:   Tea Party Questions
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1433 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 102 of 200 (635676)
09-30-2011 1:55 PM
Reply to: Message 101 by jar
09-30-2011 1:18 PM


Re: Total lack of a plan.
Hi Jar,
Not much if any information there and certainly no "plan".
Yes, a couple meager suggestions for changes that would make things worse than today, in place of a plan that will make things better than today.
Everything would cost more, especially for the working family, and the health\pharmaceutical executives would make even more obscene profits.
Everyone bow down to the dollar.
Enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by jar, posted 09-30-2011 1:18 PM jar has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 105 by Rahvin, posted 09-30-2011 2:46 PM RAZD has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1433 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 109 of 200 (635694)
09-30-2011 4:48 PM
Reply to: Message 105 by Rahvin
09-30-2011 2:46 PM


Re: Total lack of a plan.
Hi Rahvin,
Somehow Canada and the rest of the First World manage to be profitable markets for the pharmaceutical industry while simultaneously guaranteeing coverage, usually single-payer, to every citizen. If I lived a little farther north, past an arbitrary line, I wouldn't even need to pay a copay for a doctor's appointment or prescription medication...and yet the Canadian market is still profitable enough that pharmaceutical companies still sell them drugs.
Funny how it all works so differently when you cross that arbitrary border, isn't it?
Yeah, and if I go back and work 2 more years I can qualify for full social benefits, retirement etc. ... so I may have a back door to get away from the disfunctional nut fraction.
The Tea Party makes the neo-cons look good by comparison, just as Scrubbia made Nixon look good ... (though his face still looks like a foot(1)).
Enjoy

Notes:
(1) - George Carlin comment

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by Rahvin, posted 09-30-2011 2:46 PM Rahvin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 111 by Rahvin, posted 09-30-2011 6:41 PM RAZD has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1433 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(1)
Message 112 of 200 (635707)
09-30-2011 7:58 PM
Reply to: Message 111 by Rahvin
09-30-2011 6:41 PM


An alternative Progressive Plan?
Amen brotha Rahvin amen
but you preachin to the choir, man.
I pay something like $700/month for just my share of my "employer-provided" healthcare ...
I pay $1,250.00 a month and cannot afford to NOT have health insurance because of my incurable cancer with annual cat-scans that run over $5,000.00 at shot if you don't have coverage ... if I banked my premium and went "self-pay" for a year I would break even -- as long as the cancer did not come back.
I would be more than happy to pay the exact same amount to the federal government instead of insurance companies so that a nation-wide public healthcare provider could then better negotiate prices on medication and services at a group rate 300+ million subscribers strong, and guarantee coverage to everyone on the basis of need alone. I'm rather tired of the percentage of my insurance premium that goes to administrative overhead, deciding whether to approve or deny claims, rather than giving coverage to the people who are sick.
So why not we organize all like minded people to form a non-profit organization\club\association that provides health care for all members (similar to AARP?). Get registered democrats, like minded libertarians and fiscal conservatives, small businesses etc to join ... maybe 100+ million strong and growing ...
Joining is voluntary, there is a monthly fee, but membership has privileges.
We don't need no steenken approval from TeaPee'ers and Evangelical GOPs, we meet the requirements of the Obama Care Plan for coverages.
Change by evolution not revolution! (waves red banner with a footed fetish(1) ... )
Social Change
by Evolution
Not Revolution
 
Enjoy


Notes:
(1) - as opposed to a foot food fetid dish
Edited by Zen Deist, : ..

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by Rahvin, posted 09-30-2011 6:41 PM Rahvin has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 113 by bluescat48, posted 09-30-2011 11:10 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1433 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 129 of 200 (635911)
10-02-2011 10:32 PM
Reply to: Message 127 by crashfrog
10-02-2011 10:58 AM


Re: to be fair to all humans ...
Hi crashfrog,
The purpose of elections is for voters to express their choice as to the future agenda of the government. If both parties ...
You do realize that there are more than two parties in the elections AND that there are independents in both house and senate, yes?
You do realize that the reason that there are two party in dominant positions is because of flaws in the election process. Flaws that show up whenever there are more than two candidates representing sufficient numbers of people that the choice of which one is more difficult. You do know that mathematical analysis shows that one bad choice against to moderate choices can get elected when the votes for the moderate candidates are split, yes? If you need (or anyone else needs) edification on this look at the Governor of California election when Arnold was elected: the sheer number of democratic etc candidates made the single block of voters for the single GOP candidate a shoe in before the votes were counted -- not because he was a better candidate but because the rest of the vote was watered away.
In elections like this, if we MUST stick to a single vote system, it would be better to be able to vote against the worst pick so that you get either a good enough or a better candidate.
Personally I think the PRIMARIES should be run on a "vote them off the island" reality show basis, winnowing out the worst party pick at each one, to end up with the best two or three top choices, and the final vote be a single vote against the worst choice.
It would also be interesting if any party with more than 30% of the nation membership would be required to put forward two candidates for each position. In the last election I could have voted for Obama and my wife could have voted for Hillary. Think what that would do for second term elections.
But to make an election WORK when there are more than two viable candidates we would have to have at least a [first pick vote] AND a [second pick vote] or a [best candidate vote] and a [worst candidate 'veto'].(1)
. The purpose of elections is for voters to express their choice as to the future agenda of the government. If both parties converge ...
If they converge in PRACTICE - once in congress - on the construction and passage of legislation then we have compromises that, while not perfect to either party, DO accomplish the goals of legislation.
The process of compromise was embraced by the founding fathers as a way to accomplish BETTER legislation than any one person alone could provide. This of course, was before parties arose and became fixed into a system where two parties dominate the elections.
People fault our politics on the basis of parties or personalities, but it's the system which is flawed. Political polarization can work in the United States - it works better when polarized parties are able to present voters with a meaningful choice between two competing agendas.
And when the polarization reaches the point where neither party is able to pass any legislation because they are held hostage by the other for amendments that are not acceptable to the party in power -- when nothing gets done year after year, president after president -- does THAT serve the people's interest?
Do you think that if the GOP was reduced to 40% in the house and senate that they would stop their obstructionist at all cost behavior or would they become even more hostile and entrenched?
Cognitive dissonance theory says they will become increasingly hostile and entrenched.
The best bipartisanship is bipartisanship by alternation - the winning party gets to enact their agenda, and if the voters don't like it, next election they can vote the bums out and vote in new bums to reverse that agenda.
And if both parties are full of obstructionist bums and the SYSTEM prevents good candidates from getting elected what do you do? Not vote and hope? Protest? Revolt?
Vote for Pat Paulsen? (that would be a trick eh?)
Or actively work within the system for positive change to a better system rather than just ACCEPT the system we have with all it's flaws?
Social Change
by Evolution
Not Revolution
 
Enjoy

Notes:
(1) -
there are several mathematically tested ways of voting for multiple candidates that will result in the best candidate for all voters being selected -- we do not have such a system.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by crashfrog, posted 10-02-2011 10:58 AM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 130 by crashfrog, posted 10-03-2011 12:35 AM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
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