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Author Topic:   Biological instinct in female to seek out a mate outside of the group.
IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3658 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 16 of 61 (636137)
10-04-2011 9:58 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by Taz
10-04-2011 9:30 AM


No, but incest can. Most of the world does not realize this and gay are not ethical or moral factors but existential ones. If 20% of the world pop becomes gay, humanity will not survive after a few generations. Its been a difficult issue throughout history.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Taz, posted 10-04-2011 9:30 AM Taz has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by Wounded King, posted 10-04-2011 10:13 AM IamJoseph has replied

  
Wounded King
Member
Posts: 4149
From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Joined: 04-09-2003


Message 17 of 61 (636139)
10-04-2011 10:13 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by IamJoseph
10-04-2011 9:58 AM


Care to substantiate any of those highly contentious statements with anything even remotely resembling evidence?
Your entire premise seems to be built on a tenuous web of unstated assumptions. One key one seems to be that one must be exclusively homosexual or heterosexual, another that those who are homosexual forgo all interest in having children.
TTFN,
WK

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by IamJoseph, posted 10-04-2011 9:58 AM IamJoseph has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by IamJoseph, posted 10-04-2011 10:18 AM Wounded King has replied

  
IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3658 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 18 of 61 (636140)
10-04-2011 10:18 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by Wounded King
10-04-2011 10:13 AM


quote:
One key one seems to be that one must be exclusively homosexual or heterosexual, another that those who are homosexual forgo all interest in having children.
I never said any of that. However, anything which can effect reproduction inherently impacts; it is a biological issue we have no choices of.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Wounded King, posted 10-04-2011 10:13 AM Wounded King has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by Wounded King, posted 10-04-2011 10:36 AM IamJoseph has replied

  
Wounded King
Member
Posts: 4149
From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Joined: 04-09-2003


Message 19 of 61 (636141)
10-04-2011 10:36 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by IamJoseph
10-04-2011 10:18 AM


I never said any of that.
That is what makes them unstated assumptions, but if you don't believe those things then what is the rationale behind saying that ...
If 20% of the world pop becomes gay, humanity will not survive after a few generations.
Was it just a crazy non sequitur that popped out of your brain for no reason at all?
Perhaps if you were to actually substantiate your claims as I suggested then we wouldn't have to play a guessing game of me trying to work out why you say apparently ludicrous things.
TTFN,
WK

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by IamJoseph, posted 10-04-2011 10:18 AM IamJoseph has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by IamJoseph, posted 10-04-2011 10:43 AM Wounded King has replied

  
IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3658 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


(1)
Message 20 of 61 (636142)
10-04-2011 10:43 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by Wounded King
10-04-2011 10:36 AM


There are also facts stated and these are not negatable. Ignoring them is more wrong than right, because it fails to acknowledge the issue. Progress is only possible when all sides of an issue are accounted. Bearing this in mind, what is the solution which is correct?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Wounded King, posted 10-04-2011 10:36 AM Wounded King has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by Wounded King, posted 10-04-2011 10:56 AM IamJoseph has replied
 Message 22 by fearandloathing, posted 10-04-2011 11:03 AM IamJoseph has not replied

  
Wounded King
Member
Posts: 4149
From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Joined: 04-09-2003


Message 21 of 61 (636146)
10-04-2011 10:56 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by IamJoseph
10-04-2011 10:43 AM


Sorry IAJ, I just can't make head nor tail out of what you think you are saying. This seems to be bordering on a word salad.
You simply claiming that something is a fact doesn't actually make it a fact, and your resistance to providing any source to substantiate your supposed facts is less than helpful in terms of making progress in this discussion.
what is the solution which is correct?
Making a coherent argument?
TTFN,
WK

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by IamJoseph, posted 10-04-2011 10:43 AM IamJoseph has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by IamJoseph, posted 10-04-2011 7:47 PM Wounded King has not replied

  
fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 4135 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


(1)
Message 22 of 61 (636148)
10-04-2011 11:03 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by IamJoseph
10-04-2011 10:43 AM


LJ writes:
There are also facts stated and these are not negatable
Ok , what are these facts?
Ignoring them is more wrong than right, because it fails to acknowledge the issue.
You must present these FACTS first, then we can decide to ignore them or not.
Progress is only possible when all sides of an issue are accounted
By all means then account for them and fill us in.
Bearing this in mind, what is the solution which is correct?
I think WK wanted to know, as do I, how you came up with
If 20% of the world pop becomes gay, humanity will not survive after a few generations. Its been a difficult issue throughout history.
Why don't you just answer the question?
You seem to think asking a question is an answer.

"No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride...and if it occasionally gets a little heavier than what you had in mind, well...maybe chalk it off to forced conscious expansion: Tune in, freak out, get beaten."
Hunter S. Thompson
Ad astra per aspera
Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by IamJoseph, posted 10-04-2011 10:43 AM IamJoseph has not replied

  
MikeDeich
Junior Member (Idle past 4549 days)
Posts: 24
From: Rosario, Argentina
Joined: 10-31-2009


(2)
Message 23 of 61 (636175)
10-04-2011 2:01 PM


I am from California, but now live in Argentina where I started a business....& in my experience this is clearly the case. I have had many more females looking for my attention when they hear my horrible spanish accent. I think I sound like a retard, they find it cute. & I think we all can agree that foreign accents are sexy to some extent, for both men and women.
Looking at our closest genetic relative's behavior. Female chimps frequently leave their natal group upon reaching maturity....the idea being that since males rarely leave their natal group over generations, females leave naturally to avoid possible incest. Whether these females would be found more attractive among the males of a new group? Im not sure Ive ever read anything like that.
I think the possibility of incest may be at the root of a natural attraction of both sexes for people clearly born farther away from the individual. How incest and homosexuality are in anyway similar, I just dont get the logic Joseph. Incest produces unfit offspring, homosexuality does not. If homosexuality was at 20%, the population would continue to grow and homosexuality would stay at 20%...Homosexuals still have a desire to reproduce and many enter into heterosexual relationships or marriages for that very reason, as well as not accepting their sexuality. Homosexuals can have heterosexual children, and straight parents can have gay children...The % of homosexuals in the world has most likely stayed the same as long as human beings have been around (btw if I remember right, this is argued to be in between 5-15% of individuals, depending on who you ask....inevitably sexuality has alot of grey area)....In any case I still think its obviously off-topic

Replies to this message:
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 Message 26 by IamJoseph, posted 10-04-2011 8:11 PM MikeDeich has not replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3282 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


(1)
Message 24 of 61 (636224)
10-04-2011 7:20 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by MikeDeich
10-04-2011 2:01 PM


MikeDeich writes:
I think we all can agree that foreign accents are sexy to some extent, for both men and women.
This is only true in certain cases. Have you ever heard anyone say they think east asian or middle eastern accent is sexy? In fact, most people would describe asian accent as "funny" instead of sexy.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by MikeDeich, posted 10-04-2011 2:01 PM MikeDeich has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by Larni, posted 10-05-2011 3:10 AM Taz has not replied

  
IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3658 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 25 of 61 (636229)
10-04-2011 7:47 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by Wounded King
10-04-2011 10:56 AM


No brain salad, no need for substantiation. The fact was put up. Yes, if 20% of the population goes gay - humanity goes pop! Which part is confusing or non-factual other than deflecting from this blatancy? Its not about gays - its about hetros and gays and humanity as a whole, which must always take precedence of the individual, and what the true situation confronting us actually is in the big picture.
Now most of us westerners will decry the Hebrew bible as being not moral or ethical to gay/incest rights, rght? Wrong! The moral/ethical parts come from the Hebrew exclusively [sounds haughty - but also its true] - nothing comes from the Gospels or Quran which humanity as a whole accepts - get it? When one sees this law as existential, then the entire picture changes. At the same time, humanity must take a path which is moral and ethical, as gays are brothers and sisters - a father, child or loved one can be gay. Here, the law becomes a testing how we proceed, presenting us with great enigmas. So bearing the correct criteria - I ask how should the issue be addressed? You pretended you don't understand!
With regard to incest, again the law rests on humanity as a whole, which takes precedence of the individual. One must ask themselves, how will they react if say a 50 year old male neighbour invites you to celebrate the birth of a child - gotten from a union of him and his 25 year old biological daughter. Remember its of a true love and of mutual consent and they are not hurting anyone - they have a right to happiness. That is the issue where must place their answer - bang within those enigmas.
The genes and metabolism factor of course kicks in here. Because something which is not conducive to reproduction [continuance of humanity] has an automatic biological impact - its involuntary, like immune cells spitting out a harmful virus. Thus far, many have cited if stoning is legitimate - because this all comes from the Hebrew bible. This is a deflection - the stoning part only represents ancient ways when one got his hands chopped for a parking fine. In fact, there is no difference in the issue concerning incest and gays - one cannot dislodge either as both rest on the same criteria: no judge can negate one and condone the other.
What's your answer?
Edited by IamJoseph, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Wounded King, posted 10-04-2011 10:56 AM Wounded King has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by Theodoric, posted 10-04-2011 8:53 PM IamJoseph has replied
 Message 32 by Coyote, posted 10-04-2011 9:23 PM IamJoseph has replied

  
IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3658 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 26 of 61 (636231)
10-04-2011 8:11 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by MikeDeich
10-04-2011 2:01 PM


quote:
Looking at our closest genetic relative's behavior. Female chimps frequently leave their natal group upon reaching maturity....the idea being that since males rarely leave their natal group over generations, females leave naturally to avoid possible incest. Whether these females would be found more attractive among the males of a new group? Im not sure Ive ever read anything like that.
I suspect here there is a natural affinity to emulate kin and loves ones as the comfort zone, but another factor also kicks in when this is achieved too closely. This can well align with the law to GO FORTH AND MULTIPLY as being an inherent trait. It says both - emulate what you learn from parents and community; while also not to co-inhabit with them. Its a double edged sword.
quote:
I think the possibility of incest may be at the root of a natural attraction of both sexes for people clearly born farther away from the individual. How incest and homosexuality are in anyway similar, I just dont get the logic Joseph. Incest produces unfit offspring, homosexuality does not. If homosexuality was at 20%, the population would continue to grow and homosexuality would stay at 20%...Homosexuals still have a desire to reproduce and many enter into heterosexual relationships or marriages for that very reason, as well as not accepting their sexuality. Homosexuals can have heterosexual children, and straight parents can have gay children...The % of homosexuals in the world has most likely stayed the same as long as human beings have been around (btw if I remember right, this is argued to be in between 5-15% of individuals, depending on who you ask....inevitably sexuality has alot of grey area)....In any case I still think its obviously off-topic
The 20% represents the threshold where negative growth enters the picture. This does impact humanity's continuance and appears the reason why there is a rejection seen by hetros - its not bigotry as many confuse this with; its an existential factor, displayed in the mode it manifests itself.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by MikeDeich, posted 10-04-2011 2:01 PM MikeDeich has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9053
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 27 of 61 (636235)
10-04-2011 8:53 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by IamJoseph
10-04-2011 7:47 PM


Still no evidence, just an assertion. Do you have anything, anything at all, to back this up?
Or are we to accept your word as if from some oracle?

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by IamJoseph, posted 10-04-2011 7:47 PM IamJoseph has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by IamJoseph, posted 10-04-2011 8:55 PM Theodoric has replied

  
IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3658 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 28 of 61 (636237)
10-04-2011 8:55 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by Theodoric
10-04-2011 8:53 PM


Which part?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Theodoric, posted 10-04-2011 8:53 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by Theodoric, posted 10-04-2011 8:59 PM IamJoseph has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9053
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 29 of 61 (636238)
10-04-2011 8:59 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by IamJoseph
10-04-2011 8:55 PM


assert, assert, assert
All of it. Please show where you have provided any evidence for any of your assertions.
But lets start here.
Yes, if 20% of the population goes gay - humanity goes pop!
Then again there are a # of people that come here that don't feel statements like this should be backed by evidence. Seems personal testimony trumps evidence for a few people.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by IamJoseph, posted 10-04-2011 8:55 PM IamJoseph has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by IamJoseph, posted 10-04-2011 9:10 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3658 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 30 of 61 (636239)
10-04-2011 9:10 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by Theodoric
10-04-2011 8:59 PM


Re: assert, assert, assert
Its not personal or an opinion, but a mathematical fact. In many countries of the west, new laws are being considered and enacted which have different impacts from the past and of the future. They are irrefutable factors which must be included.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by Theodoric, posted 10-04-2011 8:59 PM Theodoric has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by Coragyps, posted 10-04-2011 9:21 PM IamJoseph has replied

  
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