Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 84 (8914 total)
Current session began: 
Page Loaded: 06-17-2019 10:01 AM
31 online now:
1.61803, caffeine, Coragyps, jar, JonF, Percy (Admin), Tangle (7 members, 24 visitors)
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: 4petdinos
Post Volume:
Total: 853,897 Year: 8,933/19,786 Month: 1,355/2,119 Week: 115/576 Day: 16/99 Hour: 0/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Prev1234
5
Author Topic:   The Evolution Of Sleep
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10285
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 61 of 72 (636949)
10-12-2011 1:05 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by caffeine
10-12-2011 10:24 AM


Re: What is so odd about sleep?
Caff writes:

For starters, they claim that you don't start to dream until the age of about 5 or 6, and thus animals with less detailed cognitive worlds probably don't dream.

My anecdotal reaction to this is that it is wrong. I swear I had dreams as a little kid. More pertinently, I am sure that my son (now 5) has been dreaming for years. I have heard him talk in his sleep, I know he has woken up and been in a terrible state after night terrors and he even once asked me (well over a year ago) “Why do I see stories when I am asleep?”.

I am also sure that dogs dream based on seeing them almost act out chasing things whilst asleep and waking themselves up barking (A just awoken confused mutt is quite a funny sight)

Caff writes:

I'll have more of a read later.

Likewise.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by caffeine, posted 10-12-2011 10:24 AM caffeine has acknowledged this reply

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10285
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 62 of 72 (636951)
10-12-2011 1:08 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by Larni
10-12-2011 10:21 AM


Re: What is so odd about sleep?
Larni writes:

But in many cases one is less vulnerable because of staying still and quiet in times when ones vision is inappropriate for the light conditions.

Fair point. Which might explain why grazers in wide open plains sleep so little?

Larni writes:

To give a real world example: when all those people were blinded by that meteoric shower which were the ones who got killed by Triffids, the ones who stayed in thier homes or the ones that flailed around in the street?

Well I like your idea of "real world". And I never did understand those pesky triffids were able to sense things.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by Larni, posted 10-12-2011 10:21 AM Larni has not yet responded

  
1.61803
Member
Posts: 2838
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 63 of 72 (636958)
10-12-2011 1:38 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by caffeine
10-12-2011 4:11 AM


Re: What is so odd about sleep?
I saw a tv program about sleep and dreaming last month and some of the researchers suggested that dreams are a way for our brain to run simulations. So that if and when confronted with some horrifc or stressful event whilst awake there is a mechanism in place to deal with it. Its a untested hypothesis/ speculation.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by caffeine, posted 10-12-2011 4:11 AM caffeine has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by Straggler, posted 10-12-2011 1:44 PM 1.61803 has acknowledged this reply

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10285
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 64 of 72 (636959)
10-12-2011 1:38 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by frako
10-12-2011 11:39 AM


Re: What is so odd about sleep?
I've just seen your vid.

Straggler above writes:

I am also sure that dogs dream based on seeing them almost act out chasing things whilst asleep and waking themselves up barking (A just awoken confused mutt is quite a funny sight)

A case in point.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by frako, posted 10-12-2011 11:39 AM frako has not yet responded

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10285
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 65 of 72 (636960)
10-12-2011 1:44 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by 1.61803
10-12-2011 1:38 PM


Re: What is so odd about sleep?
That fits in perfectly with my own experience. Almost all of my most vivid dreams these days involve terrible things happening to my kids as a result of me not doing something. From leaving the baby seat on top of the car and then driving off with it still on the roof to losing them at crowded festivals via more surreal events involving random holes in the road and all sorts of strange nutjobbery.

This could be seen as either preparing me for such an event or making me be even more aware of certain situations (e.g. large crowds) in which such things could happen.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by 1.61803, posted 10-12-2011 1:38 PM 1.61803 has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 67 by Larni, posted 10-12-2011 1:54 PM Straggler has responded

  
Larni
Member
Posts: 3976
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 66 of 72 (636962)
10-12-2011 1:51 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by frako
10-12-2011 11:39 AM


Re: What is so odd about sleep?
Back in the day two of my buds where staying over at my place and were sleeping in the same bed: during the night (in his sleep) one of them started sleep strangling the other. It was lucky that the beater was much smaller than the beatee.

The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer.
-Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53

Moreover that view is a blatantly anti-relativistic one. I'm rather inclined to think that space being relative to time and time relative to location should make such a naive hankering to pin-point an ultimate origin of anything, an aspiration that is not even wrong.

Well, Larni, let's say I much better know what I don't want to say than how exactly say what I do.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by frako, posted 10-12-2011 11:39 AM frako has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 68 by frako, posted 10-12-2011 2:27 PM Larni has responded

    
Larni
Member
Posts: 3976
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 67 of 72 (636963)
10-12-2011 1:54 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by Straggler
10-12-2011 1:44 PM


Re: What is so odd about sleep?
Not sure about rehersal but PTSD patients display recurrent, vivid dreams replaying their experiences.

They almost always have not emotionally processed their experiences and so these keep replaying in dreams. Part of cognitive therapy is the support the patient to 'process' these memories and when this is done properly then dreams fade.


The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer.
-Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53

Moreover that view is a blatantly anti-relativistic one. I'm rather inclined to think that space being relative to time and time relative to location should make such a naive hankering to pin-point an ultimate origin of anything, an aspiration that is not even wrong.

Well, Larni, let's say I much better know what I don't want to say than how exactly say what I do.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by Straggler, posted 10-12-2011 1:44 PM Straggler has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 71 by Straggler, posted 10-12-2011 4:53 PM Larni has responded

    
frako
Member
Posts: 2813
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 68 of 72 (636965)
10-12-2011 2:27 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by Larni
10-12-2011 1:51 PM


Re: What is so odd about sleep?
lol last weak i sleepwalked, never happened to me before, i was stoned out of my mind and passed out on the couch at 4 in the morning my girlfriend woke up and herd the tv was on she went to the living room and when she turned off the tv i stood up and started to talk about how im sorry i am sleeping in this house (the house is mine lol) and how i thought she went away and i came in. I dunno what i was dreaming about i rearely remember my dreams i dont even recall this scenario my girl told me the next morning lol

Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

Jesus was a dead jew on a stick nothing more


This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by Larni, posted 10-12-2011 1:51 PM Larni has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 69 by Larni, posted 10-12-2011 4:27 PM frako has responded

    
Larni
Member
Posts: 3976
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


(1)
Message 69 of 72 (636971)
10-12-2011 4:27 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by frako
10-12-2011 2:27 PM


Re: What is so odd about sleep?
Similar thing happened to me but I was not caned but hammered. I came home from a rare night out (none of this I recall) and pissed in the cat's tree house (conveniently cock height) and total my lap top screen with my head.

The moral? We can't generalise behaviour when psycho active drugs are involved.

As an aside, my wife went fucking mental


The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer.
-Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53

Moreover that view is a blatantly anti-relativistic one. I'm rather inclined to think that space being relative to time and time relative to location should make such a naive hankering to pin-point an ultimate origin of anything, an aspiration that is not even wrong.

Well, Larni, let's say I much better know what I don't want to say than how exactly say what I do.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by frako, posted 10-12-2011 2:27 PM frako has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 70 by frako, posted 10-12-2011 4:43 PM Larni has not yet responded

    
frako
Member
Posts: 2813
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 70 of 72 (636974)
10-12-2011 4:43 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by Larni
10-12-2011 4:27 PM


Re: What is so odd about sleep?
lol at least i was asleep i sleep for at least 2 hrs before my girl tried to turn off tv

Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

Jesus was a dead jew on a stick nothing more


This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by Larni, posted 10-12-2011 4:27 PM Larni has not yet responded

    
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10285
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


(1)
Message 71 of 72 (636976)
10-12-2011 4:53 PM
Reply to: Message 67 by Larni
10-12-2011 1:54 PM


Re: What is so odd about sleep?
Interesting. Is the conclusion that the dreams are a necessary part of the 'learning to deal with it' process or a symptom of not having dealt with it that fades once other measures have been taken?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by Larni, posted 10-12-2011 1:54 PM Larni has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 72 by Larni, posted 10-13-2011 5:54 AM Straggler has not yet responded

  
Larni
Member
Posts: 3976
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 72 of 72 (637052)
10-13-2011 5:54 AM
Reply to: Message 71 by Straggler
10-12-2011 4:53 PM


Re: What is so odd about sleep?
Good point.

I don't have any data on that. I'll have a look.

Abe: intuitively I would suggest they are the brains inelegant attempt to deal with the experiences. Our brains often try to deal is rubbish ways; that's the basic assumption of cbt.

Edited by Larni, : No reason given.


The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer.
-Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53

Moreover that view is a blatantly anti-relativistic one. I'm rather inclined to think that space being relative to time and time relative to location should make such a naive hankering to pin-point an ultimate origin of anything, an aspiration that is not even wrong.

Well, Larni, let's say I much better know what I don't want to say than how exactly say what I do.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by Straggler, posted 10-12-2011 4:53 PM Straggler has not yet responded

    
Prev1234
5
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2019