Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 85 (8915 total)
Current session began: 
Page Loaded: 07-18-2019 7:19 PM
25 online now:
DrJones*, edge, jar, Jon, kjsimons, xongsmith (6 members, 19 visitors)
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: 4petdinos
Post Volume:
Total: 856,973 Year: 12,009/19,786 Month: 1,790/2,641 Week: 299/708 Day: 74/52 Hour: 0/3


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   "If I descended from an ape, how come apes are still here?"
Chuck77
Inactive Member


Message 21 of 286 (637181)
10-14-2011 1:11 AM


He's no atheist
Hi Tangle. You are a Creationist in disguise? Why? Just come out and say it and debate these points as a creationist, why hide?

Tangle writes:

it's an infuriating question because once you understand the answer it's obvious and simple but it's a perennial - it just won't go away.

That's the first sign you think it's a good argument.

Tangle writes:

The reason it won't is because evolution is not understood by most people and ignorant religionists repeat this supposedly slam dunk question over and over.

That's the second sign you still think it's a good argument.

Tangle writes:

Instead have a go at this mind game.

That's you saying the evolutionists explanations are mind games they play with us.

The rest of these quotes of yours just proves you're a Creationist in hiding. Trying to befriend the evolutionist into an "ah ha" moment. The only way you will get any diologue out of these guys like you are is to be one of them. You've done a good job so far but to no avail if you claim to be an atheist.

Just say you disagree with the argument and say why. It would be nice to have other Creationists here. Why hide? Who cares?

Tangle writes:

I'm trying to pull together a more complete explanation so that someone for whom the idea is both new and difficult can understand. There are plenty of people that are entirely puzzled by it but are prepared to try.

One obvious thing you'd see straight away as you walked down the human line would be the height and age of the mothers - they would get progressively shorter and younger wouldn't they?

On the chimp line, nothing much would change except over millennium.

Anyone know off-hand where the parallel lines meet - pan prior? - what it would look like and where it would live?

Tangle writes:

Hmm - that's interesting and a little disappointing :-)

Could it be that those involved in the battle were warriors and therefore larger? I really don't want to believe that all those medieval buildings had doorways too small for the people living in them!

Is there any evidence that modern man gets taller with improved nutrition? Are Asians in fast developing countries like India and China getting taller?

Tangle writes:

Ah, but you've grown cynical and case hardened; I'm new here and haven't had to give the same answer a thousand times yet ;-)

I've also seen the genuine puzzlement and and also interest when they're presented with the argument for the first time. Some of them have never heard the other side of this at all or even given it a thought before.

And, bless 'em, a lot aren't very bright or used to thinking about ideas and concepts. They deserve a proper answer.

See, this is you saying there isn't a proper answer. Just say so, as a Creationist. Tell them you disagree with their answers and then tell them why. Goodness.

Tangle writes:

Yeh, that's disappointing. It leaves my argument a little naked. Then I hit the imaginary Pan prior and I have to explain a bloody 'missing link'.

Oh Snap! I can't believe these guys didn't see thru you. That, is disappointing. (on their behalf).

Tangle writes:

The two final offspring holding the hands of the same mother where the two parallel lines cross is, of course, the punchline. But I'm missing the actual mother....

Great. We know. Come clean already.

Tangle writes:

Not all people who ask this question are died-in-the-wool, no hope, fanatics; those that come to sites like this to argue the toss are extremists of both kinds - I'm the atheist kind - but the vast majority aren't and some are interested in the answers because they haven't heard them before.

You're not an atheist. You're one of us. It's obvious.

Tangle writes:

As it happens, it looks like I've picked the wrong story; science doesn't yet have the chimp line story sorted out at all. No intermediates between chimp and the common ancestor and no bloody common ancestor to hold hands with. Pity.

I guess that was your admission that you really are a creationist. Now what? You're leaving? That's it? You joined this site just for that?

Edited by Chuck77, : No reason given.

Edited by Chuck77, : No reason given.

Edited by Chuck77, : No reason given.


Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by PaulK, posted 10-14-2011 1:52 AM Chuck77 has responded
 Message 28 by Tangle, posted 10-14-2011 3:08 AM Chuck77 has responded

  
Chuck77
Inactive Member


Message 23 of 286 (637189)
10-14-2011 2:14 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by PaulK
10-14-2011 1:52 AM


Re: Creationism is for the stupid, the ignorant, and the dishonest ?
What are you talking about?

I don't think it's a good argument. Are you reading comprehension illiterate?

Try to read my post in context. It's not to hard there PaulK. Try man, try.

Im saying he's a creationist in disguise. It's my opinion from his comments. How in the world you interpret all of what you said from my post is anoynes guess. You seem very disabled intellectually. Im sorry your so ignorant.

Edited by Chuck77, : No reason given.

Edited by Chuck77, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by PaulK, posted 10-14-2011 1:52 AM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by PaulK, posted 10-14-2011 2:21 AM Chuck77 has responded

  
Chuck77
Inactive Member


Message 25 of 286 (637191)
10-14-2011 2:24 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by PaulK
10-14-2011 2:21 AM


Re: Creationism is for the stupid, the ignorant, and the dishonest ?
Im saying I believe HE secretly believes it's a good argument and won't admit he's a creationst. Why is this so hard?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by PaulK, posted 10-14-2011 2:21 AM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by PaulK, posted 10-14-2011 2:27 AM Chuck77 has responded

  
Chuck77
Inactive Member


Message 27 of 286 (637194)
10-14-2011 2:37 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by PaulK
10-14-2011 2:27 AM


Re: Creationism is for the stupid, the ignorant, and the dishonest ?
Holy cow. Im at a loss for words here that you are failing to see what im saying. Im actually astounded.

I...Chuck...77...am saying...that this man...Tangle, is undercover and a creationist posing as an atheist and thinks it's a good argument from the comments he is in fact making. He is trying to fool everyone that he is AN atheist but really thinks this argument is a good one.

Me, on the other hand, being as ASTUTE as I am, simply happened to notice this strategy playing out.

I...Chuck...77...am not in favor of the "why are there still apes around if..." argument. And I ceretainly wasn't implying that I was by my ASTUTE observation.

IIm not saying it fools the ignorant im simply asking him to come clean as a creationist and just admit HE thinks it's a good argument if that's what HE believes.

Tired tonight PaulK?

Edited by Chuck77, : No reason given.

Edited by Chuck77, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by PaulK, posted 10-14-2011 2:27 AM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by PaulK, posted 10-14-2011 3:10 AM Chuck77 has not yet responded
 Message 31 by Dr Adequate, posted 10-14-2011 3:26 AM Chuck77 has not yet responded

  
Chuck77
Inactive Member


Message 30 of 286 (637197)
10-14-2011 3:21 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by Tangle
10-14-2011 3:08 AM


Re: He's no atheist
I'm impressed by your rabid paranoia though - you're not descended from McCarthy are you?

No, im italian

Come on man. With all of your comments to everyone as not being accepetable answers as to why there are still apes it's suspicious...what about this:

Tangle writes:

As it happens, it looks like I've picked the wrong story; science doesn't yet have the chimp line story sorted out at all. No intermediates between chimp and the common ancestor and no bloody common ancestor to hold hands with. Pity.

Im sorry but that doesn't seem like something an evolutionist or an atheist would say at all.

It seems to me you are arguing against evolution here. Are you not?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Edited by Chuck77, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Tangle, posted 10-14-2011 3:08 AM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by Tangle, posted 10-14-2011 4:11 AM Chuck77 has not yet responded
 Message 39 by frako, posted 10-14-2011 5:05 AM Chuck77 has not yet responded

  
Chuck77
Inactive Member


Message 32 of 286 (637200)
10-14-2011 3:41 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by Tangle
10-14-2011 3:08 AM


Re: He's no atheist
Tangle writes:

I am now trying to renew my acquaintance with evolution theory and I came here for help in doing that when I found myself unable to satisfactorily answer some questions from a Jewish friend.

Here you go Tangle. Tell your Jewish friend this isn't an argument he should use anymore:

"If Humans Evolved from Apes, Why Do Apes Exist Today?
Arguments Christians Shouldn’t Use
by Dr. Tommy Mitchell, AiG–U.S. onSeptember 21, 2010"

Many creationists today, sadly, demonstrate their lack of understanding of the evolutionists’ position when they ask this question.

Here is how their misguided thinking goes: “If evolution were true, then modern humans descended from apes. (After all, we’ve seen many scientific charts showing apes as man’s ancestors.) So, since apes still exist, they didn’t turn into humans, and evolutionists are being silly when they say apes evolved into humans. Case closed!” People who think this way (and I have met many, but not within Answers in Genesis ministries) sincerely believe that the present-day existence of apes discredits evolution.

Well then, why don’t we ask the obvious question: If humans evolved from apes, then why do apes still exist today? If they evolved into humans, the apes should naturally be gone . . . right?

Well, no, not really.

This argument shows a misunderstanding of what evolutionists actually believe about human evolution. The evolutionary concept of the origin of humans is not based on humans descending from modern apes but, rather, argues that humans and modern apes share a common ancestor.

According to the evolutionary worldview, several million years ago there existed a group of creatures that would ultimately give rise to both modern apes and modern humans. At some point, a small group of creatures became reproductively isolated from the main group. These two groups then followed different evolutionary pathways, resulting in the modern apes and modern humans. So, in reality, there is nothing about the existence of modern apes that would trouble an evolutionist. In fact, raising this issue only shows a lack of understanding on the part of those believing that the existence of modern apes is a stumbling block for evolution. This argument also seems to imply that creationists are deliberately committing a straw-man fallacy (misrepresentation of an opponent’s position), but in reality, creationists who use this argument simply misunderstand what evolutionists believe.

This is another argument the Christian should not use.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/.../humans-evolved-from-apes

Edited by Chuck77, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Tangle, posted 10-14-2011 3:08 AM Tangle has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by Dr Adequate, posted 10-14-2011 4:00 AM Chuck77 has not yet responded

  
Chuck77
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 68 of 286 (637606)
10-17-2011 5:09 AM


the ape to human chart
I think it has to do with that big chart that used to be in class. You know the one with the ape slowly turning human? Yeah that one.

That's what the theory USED to say right? That we "turned into apes" or "became apes"? Then, after seeing how flawed that was, NOW, we "share a common ancestor"

Maybe they should change that pesky chart? Yes, the evolution of the theory of evolution.

If they would stick to one story we wouldn't all be so confused about the why are there still apes today, ya know? Image below:

Edited by Chuck77, : No reason given.

Edited by Chuck77, : No reason given.


Replies to this message:
 Message 69 by Dr Adequate, posted 10-17-2011 5:19 AM Chuck77 has responded

  
Chuck77
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 70 of 286 (637608)
10-17-2011 5:25 AM
Reply to: Message 69 by Dr Adequate
10-17-2011 5:19 AM


Re: the ape to human chart
"The Evolution Ape Man Chart And Humans And The Nebraska Man"

It was difficult finding any fossils that appeared to be \'ape-men\' to fill in the Evolution ape man chart during the first few decades of the theory. By the year 1925 there had been two or three of these. The Piltdown man was being used as an example of human evolution (which was later exposed as a hoax) in addition to Java Man (which was later shown to be the combination of two bones from different species).
Evolutionists desired to put evolution into the schools but were finding it very difficult. They decided to put on a ‘circus' type event in order to get attention to the theory. This event was called the ‘Scopes Trial' but was eventually referred to as The Monkey Trial.

It was more of a spectacle than a real trial. With all of the national attention that this event received, it was important that the evolutionists "made a splash". They certainly did that with a new \'ape-man\' dubbed The Nebraska Man.

This \'ape-man\' was drawn with artistic license from one single tooth. The creationists felt like this was \'foul play\' because they were presented with this creature without having any chance for research.

The evolutionists alleged that the anti-evolutionists simply could not accept any new evidence that contradicted their ideas.

After the ‘smoke had cleared', the Darwinists walked away with an outright victory (technically they lost the ‘trial' but won the national approval by many). The huge amount of publicity had worked. This so called \'ape-man\' was very instrumental in putting Darwinism on the map and into the schools.

Weeks later it was discovered that this tooth that had been used to draw The Nebraska Man had actually come from an extinct pig.

But the damage was done. The amount of attention that this eventual discovery (that the tooth was actually from an extinct pig) received was just a fraction of the publicity that the trial had received.

The Nebraska Man, The Piltdown Man and the Java Man were the ‘ape-men' that had given credence to the idea of human evolution for the first few decades of the theory. By the early 1950\'s they had all been exposed as horrendous science or outright frauds. But by that time the theory had gotten a foothold into the education of America.

Today, the evolution ape man chart for Darwinism is no better than it was those 5 or 6 decades ago. Though we have been taught (and our schools are still teaching today) that the human evolution chart is based on fact, reality is the exact opposite.

Besides having to remove ‘ancestors' like the Piltdown Man and Nebraska Man, other flaws also exist with this chart. Every one of the \'ape-men\' have now turned out to be either one hundred percent ape or one hundred percent human. Even the fossils labeled as Australopithicene (including \'Lucy\') are entirely ape (extinct). And Neanderthals have been determined to be 100% human. There are no known fossils that tie apes to humans.

The \'human evolution\' chart,if it was truly accurate should consist of nothing but 100% apes and 100% humans with just a very large blank spot between them. I.e. No evolution has ever occurred between any apes and humans and the so called \'evolution ape man chart\' ought to be completely discarded.

http://www.articlesbase.com/...the-nebraska-man-2069297.html

Yeah, you're right, I have no clue what to believe when it comes to evolutionist'.

How did you work your way thru all the lies (or maybe a better word-mistakes) and eventually come to accept it?

Edited by Chuck77, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by Dr Adequate, posted 10-17-2011 5:19 AM Dr Adequate has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 72 by Dr Adequate, posted 10-17-2011 5:52 AM Chuck77 has responded
 Message 75 by caffeine, posted 10-17-2011 6:02 AM Chuck77 has responded
 Message 77 by Tangle, posted 10-17-2011 6:06 AM Chuck77 has not yet responded
 Message 82 by Dr Adequate, posted 10-17-2011 11:56 AM Chuck77 has not yet responded

  
Chuck77
Inactive Member


Message 73 of 286 (637613)
10-17-2011 5:56 AM
Reply to: Message 72 by Dr Adequate
10-17-2011 5:52 AM


Re: the ape to human chart
the fact that people once mistakenly believed in phlogiston does nothing to stop me from understanding valence.

Im sorry, I only have a GED and im to lazy to google that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by Dr Adequate, posted 10-17-2011 5:52 AM Dr Adequate has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 76 by Dr Adequate, posted 10-17-2011 6:02 AM Chuck77 has not yet responded

  
Chuck77
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 74 of 286 (637614)
10-17-2011 5:59 AM
Reply to: Message 63 by Nuggin
10-16-2011 1:31 PM


Nuggin's education
Nuggin writes:

These are simple minded people who pride themselves in their lack of education and unwillingness to consider anything in depth. "Book smarts" is, to them, the worst insult you can hurl at someone.

It's time to provide evidence of your education big mouth. Until then you are a pathetic internet troll.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by Nuggin, posted 10-16-2011 1:31 PM Nuggin has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by Nuggin, posted 10-17-2011 11:40 AM Chuck77 has not yet responded

  
Chuck77
Inactive Member


Message 78 of 286 (637618)
10-17-2011 6:22 AM
Reply to: Message 75 by caffeine
10-17-2011 6:02 AM


Re: the ape to human chart
caffeine writes:

If your link means the picture posted above when it talks about the 'Evolution Ape Man chart',

It doesnt, obviously. Notice it was in a different comment?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by caffeine, posted 10-17-2011 6:02 AM caffeine has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by caffeine, posted 10-17-2011 6:47 AM Chuck77 has not yet responded
 Message 80 by Admin, posted 10-17-2011 8:08 AM Chuck77 has not yet responded

  
Chuck77
Inactive Member


Message 133 of 286 (652055)
02-12-2012 4:10 AM


Story time...
Here's one:

If we descended from a common ancestor...how come we don't know who they were?

While your all trying to answer that...i'll give a little history lesson to the lurkers everyone is always talking about.

Once upon a time there was no common ancestor. We evolved from apes. Then, a big bright light went off in one or more, scientists head..."wait a second, this isn't going to work!"

Sooooooo, the common ancestor was born...

That ends story night for tonight boys and girls...


Replies to this message:
 Message 134 by PaulK, posted 02-12-2012 4:19 AM Chuck77 has responded
 Message 136 by dwise1, posted 02-12-2012 4:39 AM Chuck77 has not yet responded
 Message 138 by Panda, posted 02-12-2012 5:22 AM Chuck77 has not yet responded
 Message 139 by Trixie, posted 02-12-2012 7:25 AM Chuck77 has not yet responded
 Message 141 by Percy, posted 02-12-2012 8:28 AM Chuck77 has not yet responded
 Message 144 by jar, posted 02-12-2012 11:05 AM Chuck77 has not yet responded

  
Chuck77
Inactive Member


Message 135 of 286 (652057)
02-12-2012 4:21 AM
Reply to: Message 134 by PaulK
02-12-2012 4:19 AM


Re: Story time...
Hi PaulK

Are you saying that within the TOE common ancestory has always been taught?

PaulK, is this what you're saying?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 134 by PaulK, posted 02-12-2012 4:19 AM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 137 by PaulK, posted 02-12-2012 5:01 AM Chuck77 has not yet responded
 Message 140 by RAZD, posted 02-12-2012 8:02 AM Chuck77 has not yet responded
 Message 142 by Percy, posted 02-12-2012 9:39 AM Chuck77 has not yet responded

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2019