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Author | Topic: Evidence for a recent flood | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Taq Member Posts: 10037 Joined: Member Rating: 5.4 |
The land mass being in one place and the water rising from all directions (with no rate of the rise of the water given) and coming down in the form of rain (with no explanation of the rate the water was raining at) just what would you expect to find. The first thing I would expect is a discontinuity in annual records such as lake varves, ice layers, and tree rings. Looking at ice layers in particular, if Antarctica and Greenland (two sources for correlating annual layers) were covered in water then the ice sheets covering these land masses would lift off and float away. When we look at ice cores from these two continents they should only go back 4,000 years or so. The carbon dioxide gas trapped in these ice layers could also be used to correlate 14C ratios with the other two annual records: tree rings and lake varves. ABE: In the lake varve record I would expect to see an interruption of the alternating diatom and clay layers, and in the tree rings I would expect to see an extinction of the forest at a given year with new trees starting to grow after this disturbance. Edited by Taq, : No reason given.
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Taq Member Posts: 10037 Joined: Member Rating: 5.4 |
Well the first thing you would need to do is determine exactly the date that the flood took place. Coyote already did that in the opening post. He stated: "But biblical scholars place the flood at about 4,350 years ago." That is the date we are working with in this thread. I would be happy to put a 100 year fudge factor on it if you wish.
Since the Bible does not give one you have no idea what to look for.
That is something you need to take up with other creationist groups such as AiG and ICR. We are using the date that they established. If you claim that there was not a recent global flood then you apparently agree with the rest of us.
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Taq Member Posts: 10037 Joined: Member Rating: 5.4
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Well seeing how the Bible is a fable and myth, how can there be evidence for something that is false?
As jar states, fables and myths are not strict observations of an actual event. Rather, they try to relate philosophical truths through a story. You need to remember this. For example, if someone cited Aesop's Fables as evidence for animals talking in past centuries you would be right to laugh at them. Aesop's Fables are not meant to relate a historical occurrence where animals talked to one another. Instead, the Fables were meant to teach people about morals and philosophical truths. The truth that resides in Aesop's Fables has nothing to do with whether or not animals actually talked.
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Taq Member Posts: 10037 Joined: Member Rating: 5.4 |
So when we are talking about how a flood such as the one in the Bible story of the flood of Noah there would be very little evidence. Why?
The Bible text says the dry land was covered with water. Genesis 7:19 The Bible says the people were scattered over the face of the dry land. Genesis 11:8 The Bible says the Earth was divided after the flood. Genesis 10:25 That is the evidence of what was said about the flood of Noah. You can accept it or reject it that is your choice.
No, that is the account that the Bible presents. What we are asking for is the evidence that what the Bible presents actually occurred. Using the verses you used above, we should see a flood layer that is dated using 14C from human artefacts such as middens or charcoal across all continents. You are free to use other dating methods if you are looking at time frames greater than 40k years before present. However, flooding does leave evidence, and it is that evidence that we are asking for.
If the fountains of the deep opened up and released enough water to raise the water at such a rate what would you expect to see left behind when it receeded? Something similar to the recent tsunamis. We would expect to see ruined human villages with a silt layer. If the land split as you say then we should see this reflected in the dating of sea floor rocks where the spreading occurred. That is, the sea floor should all date to around the same time.
The only evidence you would find is that there was local floods in a lot of places around the world. So where is that evidence?
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Taq Member Posts: 10037 Joined: Member Rating: 5.4 |
There is enough water beneath the crust of the Earth to fill our oceans from 5 to 10 times depending on who you are reading beind. What you forget to mention is that this water is locked within the constituents of the plastic mantle, and it is in the form of molecular water, that is sinlge molecules of water within the mantle matrix. For this water to flood the Earth it would require all of the mantle to come to the surface at some point during the flood and expunge all of the water from it. This is hardly a viable mechanism.
There is evidence that all the land mass has been covered with water. What you fail to mention is that there is no evidence that it was covered by water at the same time.
The land masses of the Earth are moving and if you trace it back you will find that there was one body of water and one land mass in the past. The part you fail to mention is that humans were not around when the land masses were together.
He said Pangea existed some 3500 years ago. So then it should be easy for you to show us the evidence of this. Where is it?
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Taq Member Posts: 10037 Joined: Member Rating: 5.4
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There are only so many plates that exist and one has to dive under another to cause subduction so there is only about 6 places that the water could get into the mantle but it is throughout the mantle. The mantle is not static:
Differences in temperature create convection currents which drives both plate movement (along with cold slab pull) and distribution of water within the mantle.
That leads me to believe that the litosphere that is under water has water in it also. This is the water that would have came to the surface when the fountains of the deep were opened up. How do you flood the world with water that is in natural aquifers? What energy source is moving the water out of the rock? We humans have to use pumps to pull water out of aquifers. Also, as you remove water it will just pull more water back in to replace it.
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Taq Member Posts: 10037 Joined: Member Rating: 5.4
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If you put various sediments in a blender and then lay them down with water, they will all go back neatly into layers. Kids can do this experiment at home! If you did the same with diatoms, fine clay, and leaf debris from the last 10,000 years would this process create 150,000 alternating layers of diatoms and clay particles where the leaf debris is sorted by tiny differences in carbon 14?
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Taq Member Posts: 10037 Joined: Member Rating: 5.4 |
Can a 150-day flood repeat that sequence a few thousand times? I can find you some cores out of gas wells where actual nature did that. First, you would need 150,000 seasons worth of diatoms without any contamination from marine plankton in a system exposed to ocean water. Second, you still need to sort leaf and insect debris by tiny differences in 14C. Did you see these features in the gas well cores? (I am referring to Lake Suigetsu for those in the know) Edited by Taq, : No reason given.
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Taq Member Posts: 10037 Joined: Member Rating: 5.4
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Its not easy to answer every reply. You have made your job even harder by choosing a conclusion that is contradicted by literal mountains of evidence and 300 years of accumulated scientific knowledge. If someone gets up in the middle of science class and announces that the world is flat don't you think he will have a few questions asked of him? On top of that, you offer overly simplistic models that are not even analogous to real life evidence. Does the geologic column look anything like the results from your blender experiment? Did you even stop to consider this idea? Did you do any research to find out if the geologic column is sorted by particle density and size? Did you figure out how your blender model would sort igneous rocks so that the rocks on the bottom would just a little bit more Argon than the rocks at the top, like we see in the geologic column? Did you even consider how your blender experiment would sort fossils so that they always end up under rock with a specific ratio of Potassium and Argon such as we find in the geologic column (e.g. dinosaurs always end up below rocks with a ratio of Potassium and Argon consistent with 65 million years worth of decay, why is that according to flood geology?). It may not be intentional, but it is somewhat insulting for someone to claim that the blender experiment explains why the geologic column looks the way it does. Do you really think that geologists are that dumb? When all of this is pointed out, what is your response? "Strong and bitter words indicate a weak cause." Really? An inability to engage the evidence is a sign of a false theory. An inability to answer basic questions is a sign of a false theory. Perhaps you should focus on creationism before pointing any fingers. Edited by Taq, : No reason given.
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