|
Author
|
Topic: Evidence for a recent flood
|
Panda
Member (Idle past 3739 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: 10-04-2010
|
|
Message 24 of 404 (637409)
10-15-2011 11:37 AM
|
Reply to: Message 23 by Chuck77
10-15-2011 2:35 AM
|
|
Re: Flood
Chuckles writes: I think Coyote is genuinly interested in what evidence is out there from a Creationist presepective and didn't just start a thread to shout down everyone that tries to participate here, like ICANT seems to be encountering.
Your claim that ICANT is being shouted down is not true.
Chuckles writes: I assume it was started for other Creationists to participate in and not so we can just be laughed at and called stupid like ICANT seems to be encountering.
Your claim that ICANT is being laughed at is not true. Your claim that ICANT is being called stupid is not true.
Chuckles writes: I assume 50 people don't have to dogpile one member who (has the guts to participate) like ICANT seems to be encountering.
Your claim that 50 people are dog-piling ICANT is not true. Your claim that ICANT is being dog-piled is not true.
Chuckles writes: Maybe Moose would like to moderate the thread and keep it a clean discussion since it was his idea to start it.
Your implication that the conversation is not clean is not true.
Chuckles writes: Im gathering evidence to present here and not just coming here to present beliefs.
Your claim that you are gathering evidence and not just coming here to present beliefs is... Edited by Panda, : No reason given. Edited by Panda, : No reason given.
If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 23 by Chuck77, posted 10-15-2011 2:35 AM | | Chuck77 has not replied |
|
Panda
Member (Idle past 3739 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: 10-04-2010
(2)
| |
| |
| |
|
|
Message 28 of 404 (637497)
10-16-2011 6:31 AM
|
Reply to: Message 27 by Portillo
10-16-2011 4:19 AM
|
|
Portillo writes: Billions of dead things, which we call fossils, laid down by water all over the world.
Although true: that is far too a general statement to be useful. The following sentence is also true:
If 1000's of small floods occurred over millions of years, what would you expect to find? Billions of dead things, which we call fossils, laid down by water all over the world. And what do we find? Billions of dead things, which we call fossils, laid down by water all over the world. There needs to be something to separate your claim from the more mundane floods that we see regularly, all over the world. So, although correct, your statement needs to be more specific to rule out the everyday events. Edited by Panda, : typo
If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 27 by Portillo, posted 10-16-2011 4:19 AM | | Portillo has not replied |
|
Panda
Member (Idle past 3739 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: 10-04-2010
|
(This was intended for Pressie. Sorry Dr. A.)
Pressie writes: There's lots of areas all over the world with no fossils at all. Therefore, those fossils are not all over the world. Therefore, no such flood.
I feel that the words were too vague/general to successfully critique in that way. e.g. There are flowers all over my lawn - but my lawn is not 100% covered in flowers. This 'wiggle room' will allowed the statement to be 'adjusted' whenever someone tries to pin it down. Edited by Panda, : No reason given. Edited by Panda, : No reason given.
If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 37 by Dr Adequate, posted 10-17-2011 4:15 AM | | Dr Adequate has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 40 by Pressie, posted 10-17-2011 9:49 AM | | Panda has replied |
|
Panda
Member (Idle past 3739 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: 10-04-2010
|
|
|
Message 43 of 404 (637642)
10-17-2011 10:37 AM
|
Reply to: Message 40 by Pressie
10-17-2011 9:49 AM
|
|
Pressie writes: In one big global flood occurring at the same time all over the world, covering the entire world in water, I would expect to find at least one stratum of sedimentary deposits with comparative characteristics that covers the entire world. From pole to pole. It would contain unsorted debris all in one layer. In laymen's terms, all mixed up.
Pressie writes: In one global flood, yip, all over the world. Everywhere. No sequence of deposition involved. All mixed up. No layering involved. Although this might be correct - it is not what Portillo said. You have added lots of detail (which I expect Portillo did not have).
Pressie writes: We don't find that at all. For example, what about all those fossils not laid down in strata deposited by water? All those fossils in pyroclastic deposits, for example. No global flood involved.
Fossils found in volcanic strata do not invalidate the fossils found in flood strata. A flood would leave fossils - these are seen. Other fossils are irrelevent. (NB: I am playing devil's advocate). IMHO: Portillo's statement is true but only in a trivial/general sense. It can only be shown to be wrong if he supplies some meat to his statement. As it currently stands it is as true as saying
"If unicorns existed then what would you expect to find? Hoof prints. And what do we find? Hoof prints."Clearly this is true, but it doesn't differentiate between unicorns and the much evidenced horses. Edited by Panda, : No reason given.
If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 40 by Pressie, posted 10-17-2011 9:49 AM | | Pressie has not replied |
|
Panda
Member (Idle past 3739 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: 10-04-2010
|
|
|
Message 76 of 404 (638599)
10-24-2011 6:31 AM
|
Reply to: Message 74 by Portillo
10-24-2011 4:21 AM
|
|
Portillo writes: Thats exactly what happens when a flood occurs. Have you ever wondered why we dont find fossils of animals today, only the past? Thats because to be fossilised, an animal has to be laid down by water and buried quickly.
This implies that floods no longer occur, which is clearly not true. You claim that the creation of fossils requires that animals are laid down by water and buried quickly. And that is what floods do. But you then claim that fossilisation no longer happens ("we don't find fossils of animals today"). Can you explain how floods can bury animals quickly but fossils are no longer created? Edited by Panda, : No reason given. Edited by Panda, : No reason given.
If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 74 by Portillo, posted 10-24-2011 4:21 AM | | Portillo has replied |
|
Panda
Member (Idle past 3739 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: 10-04-2010
|
Dr. A writes: Well that hasn't been shown either.
I was more trying to point out the logical contradictions than the factual errors. You seem to be already dealing with the factual errors.
If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 77 by Dr Adequate, posted 10-24-2011 6:36 AM | | Dr Adequate has not replied |
|
Panda
Member (Idle past 3739 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: 10-04-2010
|
|
|
Message 88 of 404 (638955)
10-27-2011 8:37 AM
|
Reply to: Message 87 by Coyote
10-26-2011 11:41 PM
|
|
Re: Summary to date:
Coyote writes: But it is interesting that nobody is supporting a recent date for the flood. It seems that folks are more comfortable having a very ambiguous date for the flood so that it can't be disproved.
In his KJV thread, ICANT thinks that the flood occurred within the lifetime of Peleg - but he seems unable to say when this was. Maybe someone else has a suggestion for when Peleg lived? Edited by Panda, : No reason given.
If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 87 by Coyote, posted 10-26-2011 11:41 PM | | Coyote has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 89 by Coragyps, posted 10-27-2011 9:19 AM | | Panda has replied |
|
Panda
Member (Idle past 3739 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: 10-04-2010
|
|
|
Message 90 of 404 (638967)
10-27-2011 9:47 AM
|
Reply to: Message 89 by Coragyps
10-27-2011 9:19 AM
|
|
Re: Summary to date:
Coragyps writes: That's peculiar, since Gen 11 has Peleg as the great-great-grandson of Shem, who was one of the eight survivors of the Fludde. I finally found ICANT's post and I was mistaken. ICANT was claiming that the world was separated during Peleg's lifetime. Sorry. Edited by Panda, : No reason given.
If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 89 by Coragyps, posted 10-27-2011 9:19 AM | | Coragyps has not replied |
|
Panda
Member (Idle past 3739 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: 10-04-2010
|
|
|
Message 92 of 404 (639305)
10-30-2011 8:14 AM
|
Reply to: Message 91 by Coyote
10-29-2011 11:15 PM
|
|
Coyote writes: I just thought: are you banned from these threads? I have not seen any announcement regarding Buz having his posting rights reinstated. Unfortunately, he is banned from the science forum for continually not supplying the very thing you are asking him to supply: evidence. And since he was unable to even create a PNT ( What Constitutes By Definition, Evidence Of Supernatural Phenomena ), I doubt he would answer your request to anything close to your satisfaction. Edited by Panda, : No reason given.
If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 91 by Coyote, posted 10-29-2011 11:15 PM | | Coyote has not replied |
|
Panda
Member (Idle past 3739 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: 10-04-2010
|
|
|
Message 98 of 404 (639389)
10-31-2011 7:56 AM
|
Reply to: Message 94 by Pressie
10-31-2011 5:55 AM
|
|
Re: Evidence for a recent flood
{abe} Oops. This should have been a reply to Portillo - but I misclicked. (I expect he wouldn't have replied, anyway.)
Portillo writes: In Siberia there are 5 million woolly mammaths frozen.
Ok, let's have a look at AnswersInGenesis: quote:
The top expert on woolly mammoths in Siberia is Nikolai Vereshchagin, who has spent nearly half a century researching the mammoth fauna.
quote:
In a report in the Smithsonian magazine, [J. M.] Stewart refers to an estimate made by [Nikolai] Vereshchagin...
quote:
If each tusk weighs 100 pounds (45 kg), a reasonable estimate, [J. M. Stewart referring to] Vereshchagin’s [estimated] numbers would suggest that five million mammoths are buried in this region!
Who was Nikolai Vereshchagin? Was he the "top expert on woolly mammoths in Siberia...who has spent nearly half a century researching the mammoth fauna[sic]" as described by AiG? Well, if he was - then he has since almost disappeared - the references to him are either on creationist sites or in reference to cave lions. I am also left asking myself: Why do creationist web-sites have to reply on unverifiable quotes from out-of-print magazines referencing obscure palaeontologists to support their arguments? I will leave you to answer that question yourself. Edited by Panda, : No reason given. Edited by Panda, : No reason given.
If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 94 by Pressie, posted 10-31-2011 5:55 AM | | Pressie has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 99 by Pressie, posted 10-31-2011 8:21 AM | | Panda has replied |
|
Panda
Member (Idle past 3739 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: 10-04-2010
|
|
|
Message 100 of 404 (639397)
10-31-2011 8:23 AM
|
Reply to: Message 99 by Pressie
10-31-2011 8:21 AM
|
|
Re: Evidence for a recent flood
Pressie writes: Neurologist who introduced computed tomography to the former Soviet Union I did see that 'Nicolai Vereshchagin' - but I think he just has the same name (only with a 'c' not a 'k'). Type "Nikolai Vereshchagin cave lion" into google and you will find references to a palaeontologist... Edited by Panda, : No reason given. Edited by Panda, : No reason given.
If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 99 by Pressie, posted 10-31-2011 8:21 AM | | Pressie has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 101 by Pressie, posted 10-31-2011 8:47 AM | | Panda has seen this message but not replied |
|
Panda
Member (Idle past 3739 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: 10-04-2010
|
|
|
Message 102 of 404 (639401)
10-31-2011 9:22 AM
|
Reply to: Message 93 by Portillo
10-31-2011 5:03 AM
|
|
Re: Evidence for a recent flood
Coyote writes: Let's get back to the topic of "Evidence for a recent flood." So far I haven't seen any serious evidence offered in support of a recent flood. Have I missed something? Portillo in reply writes: In Siberia there are 5 million woolly mammaths frozen. The mammaths are crushed as if something came on top of them and pushed them down. Many are standing, kneeling or looking up. Some still have undigested food in their stomachs. Fresh flowers have been found in there mouths, which they were chewing on before they were fast frozen. How did that massive, violent death happen? How did the woolly mammaths freeze so quickly and turn into blocks of ice? Did it happen over millions of years or did it happen quickly with lots of water and catastrophe?
Why do you think that the Flood could rapidly freeze the mammoths? Edited by Panda, : No reason given.
If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 93 by Portillo, posted 10-31-2011 5:03 AM | | Portillo has replied |
|
Panda
Member (Idle past 3739 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: 10-04-2010
|
|
|
Message 104 of 404 (639414)
10-31-2011 12:31 PM
|
Reply to: Message 103 by NoNukes
10-31-2011 11:57 AM
|
|
Re: Evidence for a recent flood
NoNukes writes: Portillio seems to make reference here to Kent Hovind's inane wankering that the Flood was caused by a massive ice meteor (comet?) that made craters on the moon, created the rings of Saturn and froze woolly mammoths standing up, started an ice age, and touched of Noah's flood, among other things. Ah. Well, I will wait for Portillo's explanation as I cannot face watching another Kent Hovind video - one was enough. But even from your summary of Kent's position it is not obvious how a 'flood + ice-age' can rapidly freeze mammoths mid-stride while in deep flood-water. Nor does it supply any evidence of a recent flood - it instead predicts that there will be evidence of a recent 'flood + ice meteor + ice-age'. This does not help the creationist's case at all.
If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 103 by NoNukes, posted 10-31-2011 11:57 AM | | NoNukes has replied |
|
Panda
Member (Idle past 3739 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: 10-04-2010
|
|
|
Message 108 of 404 (639437)
10-31-2011 3:40 PM
|
Reply to: Message 107 by NoNukes
10-31-2011 3:21 PM
|
|
Re: Evidence for a recent flood
NoNukes writes: I was trying to leave you some reason to watch the video. I'd need a REALLY good reason to watch another Kent Hovind video...
If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 107 by NoNukes, posted 10-31-2011 3:21 PM | | NoNukes has seen this message but not replied |
|
Panda
Member (Idle past 3739 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: 10-04-2010
|
|
|
Message 116 of 404 (639496)
11-01-2011 7:51 AM
|
Reply to: Message 114 by Portillo
11-01-2011 5:33 AM
|
|
Portillo writes: Im just here to have some friendly debate. Part of debating is addressing the points raised by others. When you make claims in a debate, it is normal for people to ask you to support those claims or to point out errors/contradictions/etc.
Portillo writes: You guys and girls expect me to answer a million questions. You are free to answer as many or as few questions as you choose. If you choose to not answer any questions then that is not debating, but if you do decide to support your claims, then remember that there is no hurry - so you can take your time when replying.
Its 2011 and were still talking about Noahs Flood! And people still talk about Jesus too!  Edited by Panda, : No reason given.
If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 114 by Portillo, posted 11-01-2011 5:33 AM | | Portillo has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 117 by Pressie, posted 11-01-2011 9:05 AM | | Panda has seen this message but not replied | | | Message 119 by Portillo, posted 11-02-2011 5:33 AM | | Panda has not replied |
|
™ Version 4.2