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Author Topic:   What the KJV Bible says about the Noah Flood
Panda
Member (Idle past 3738 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 42 of 306 (638438)
10-22-2011 7:29 AM
Reply to: Message 37 by Trixie
10-22-2011 4:49 AM


Re: Single land mass
Trixie writes:
Earlier, Percy said
quote:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
God called the "gathering together of the water" seas. That's seas, not sea, as in more than one sea.
Later you said, in reply to IamJoseph kbertsche
quote:
I also gave the Hebrew word that is translated seas which is a masculine singular verb. Singular is not plural. There was one sea.
Forgetting for the moment the gender (which is irrelevant to my point) "seas" can't be considered a singular verb. For starters it's a noun, but, more importantly, its plural. If the original Hebrew uses a singular form, then the translation is inaccurate, if it's accurate it uses a plural form, therefore you can't argue that that it talks about a single sea.
I am wondering how far this discussion can proceed when the OP can't even agree with himself on the translation of a single word.

If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by Trixie, posted 10-22-2011 4:49 AM Trixie has not replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3738 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 89 of 306 (638611)
10-24-2011 9:06 AM
Reply to: Message 87 by ICANT
10-24-2011 8:50 AM


Re: Single land mass
ICANT writes:
The problem is that Science tells us the land mass was all in one place at one time, as the Bible tells us there was one land mass at one time.
This is not a science thread.
What science says about a global flood is off-topic.
So, what does the KJV Bible say?
ICANT writes:
The land mass could be in any configuration as long as there was not any water landlocked within the land mass.
So - the KJV does NOT state that there was a Pangaea-like land mass.
It could have been any kind of shape, as long as there was no land-locked water.

If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue

This message is a reply to:
 Message 87 by ICANT, posted 10-24-2011 8:50 AM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 96 by ICANT, posted 10-24-2011 11:42 AM Panda has replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3738 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 97 of 306 (638640)
10-24-2011 12:20 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by ICANT
10-24-2011 11:42 AM


Re: Single land mass
ICANT writes:
What science says about the geography of the Earth is not off topic in this thread.
So, if science says that there was no global flood, that would not be off-topic?
And anyway, I thought this thread was about what the bible says about the flood - and not what science says.
ICANT writes:
So the Bible and Science agreeing that at one time all the land mass was in one place is just verification that the Bible is correct about that event.
No, it is not verification: it is cherry picking. It is confirmation bias.
ICANT writes:
The text does not describe the shape of the dry land.
It just states that dry land appeared when the water was collected to one place.
Anything else is left up to imagination or what Science tells us.
...but only if science agrees with the bible.
But why mention science anyway?
Doesn't the bible contain all the information we need?
ICANT writes:
I choose to go with what Science tells us about the land being in one place at one time, which would have caused the water to be in one place.
Science doesn't say that all the water was in one place though.
But this thread is about "What the KJV Bible says about the Noah Flood" and not "What science says about the Noah flood".
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by ICANT, posted 10-24-2011 11:42 AM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 99 by ICANT, posted 10-24-2011 12:44 PM Panda has replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3738 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 100 of 306 (638651)
10-24-2011 1:08 PM
Reply to: Message 99 by ICANT
10-24-2011 12:44 PM


Re: Single land mass
ICANT writes:
Science can only say what it says.
Scientist on the other hand can say science says anything that suits their fancy or biases.
Fine.
Science says there was no global flood.
ICANT writes:
Makes no difference what you say it is, they both agree that at one time there was one land mass.
Yes. That is what happens when you cherry pick information.
You can take information out-of-context and you can make it say anything you want.
ICANT writes:
But if all the land was in one place at one time that would leave all the water in one place.
No. Look at your avatar: all the land is in one place - but the water is not. QED.
ICANT writes:
Panda writes:
But this thread is about "What the KJV Bible says about the Noah Flood" and not "What science says about the Noah flood".
You mean they can't agree on events that have happened in the past?
No, I mean this thread is about "What the KJV Bible says about the Noah Flood" and not "What science says about the Noah flood".
As the OP, do you not know this?
ICANT writes:
I say they can and do and science does not disprove nor can it disprove a flood.
As you know very little about science, I'll give your opinion the value it deserves.
ICANT writes:
That is the reason for determining exactly what the KJV, LXX, and Hebrew text says about the Earth at the time of the flood.
It is a shame that you keep going on about what science says then.
ICANT writes:
If the Earth was as I present it and a flood took place and the Earth was then divided there would be no evidence left behind that could be found to support a world wide flood. There would be evidence of a flood in all of the land mass that was above water at that time but the land mass that was under the water that was in one place would have different evidence and some that protruded up through the land that was at the bottom of the water would have something different.
But this thread is about "What the KJV Bible says about the Noah Flood" and not "What ICANT imagines about the Noah flood".
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue

This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by ICANT, posted 10-24-2011 12:44 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 101 by ICANT, posted 10-24-2011 2:11 PM Panda has replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3738 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 103 of 306 (638663)
10-24-2011 5:22 PM
Reply to: Message 101 by ICANT
10-24-2011 2:11 PM


Re: Single land mass
ICANT writes:
Scientist and others say Science says there was no global flood.
But without knowing the geography of the Earth at the time of the flood no conclusion can be reached.
Wrong. I don't need to know how someone was murdered to find evidence of it happening - so why would a global flood be any different?
ICANT writes:
So which piece of information was taken out of context.
If you click on the links at the bottom of this post you can follow the conversation backwards and read what you have written.
Personally, I prefer to remember what I have said and what I am discussing.
But to help you with your poor memory: "The problem is that Science tells us the land mass was all in one place at one time, as the Bible tells us there was one land mass at one time."
This is particularly ironic since your avatar shows that there is no need for there to be one land mass.
ICANT writes:
But that water was added to my avatar today so I could ask the question, "is all the water in my avatar in the same place"?
So thanks for confirming that the water in my avatar is not all in one place.
But you have forgotten what you are talking about again.
Here it is for you:
Panda writes:
ICANT writes:
But if all the land was in one place at one time that would leave all the water in one place.
No. Look at your avatar: all the land is in one place - but the water is not. QED.
So - no.
The fact that the water in your avatar is not 'all in one place' while the land clearly is 'all in one place' disproves your claim.
Your own evidence has proved you wrong.
ICANT writes:
I have presented what the KJV Bible say about the events I have described so far as well as the confirmation that Science has given in the past to the land mass being in one place at one time requiring all the water to be in one place at one time.
And if we keep stumbling around on determining the geography of the Earth at the time of the Noah flood we will never get to any specific details about the flood.
If we do not know what the Earth was like when the flood took place there is no way of determining what happened.
The science doesn't agree with you.
So, if you don't feel there is enough evidence in the bible to know what happened, then I suggest that you stop making unsupported claims.
ICANT writes:
Once it is determined what the geography was when the flood took place then we can discuss any information Biblical or Scientific as to whether the flood took place or not.
But to say Science disproves the flood without knowing what the Earth's geography was at the time of the flood is asinine.
And I repeat: when something happens in the past: it leaves evidence.
Your mantra of "We need to know the geography before we can know if it happened" is not an argument that has any merit.
It is patently wrong.
ICANT writes:
Does that say all the water under heaven was gathered to one place?
Does it say that the land was all in one place?
No.
ICANT writes:
So this is not what ICANT imagines the text says but exactly what the text says.
Since it doesn't say that all the land was in one place, then it must have been imagined by you.
ICANT writes:
If everyone here wants to declare that the Earth was just like it is today then there is no way to have a discussion.
Have you decided on when it happened yet?
4500 years ago?
250 million years ago?
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.
Edited by Panda, : tweaks for clarity

If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue

This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by ICANT, posted 10-24-2011 2:11 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 109 by ICANT, posted 10-24-2011 10:08 PM Panda has replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3738 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 118 of 306 (638718)
10-25-2011 9:03 AM
Reply to: Message 109 by ICANT
10-24-2011 10:08 PM


Re: Single land mass
ICANT writes:
I did say you needed to know the geography of the Earth at the time of the flood and what happened thereafter to be able to figure out what you would find.
Geologists know what evidence of flooding looks like.
Geologists know what the Earth's geological history is.
The Earth's geological history does not include a global flood.
ICANT writes:
IOW if the water was in one place and the dry land was only 1 foot above sea level it would not take much water to cover the highest part of that land would be 15 cubits of water. Using the largest Hebrew cubit that would be 30.6 feet of water + the 1 foot to sea level. So 31.6 feet of water would be required, which would be 8.6 feet below the bottom of the door that was in the side of the ark. The ark wouldn't even have to rise off the land it was sitting on.
And if the land was only one foot above sea-level it would be underwater at each high tide.
But, as can be seen below, the bible says that there were mountains.
ICANT writes:
Taking into consideration there was no mountains to wash down into the low places and the water rose from the fountains of the deep all around the land mass until it was covered, with the rain falling at the same time.
No mountains? "Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered. " Gen 7:20 KJV ?
ICANT writes:
I am not sure of the date but I will go out on a limb and say I believe the Earth was divided as stated in Genesis 10:25 during the lifetime of Peleg.
And when, would you say, was Peleg alive?

If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue

This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by ICANT, posted 10-24-2011 10:08 PM ICANT has not replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3738 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 120 of 306 (638720)
10-25-2011 9:09 AM
Reply to: Message 115 by ICANT
10-25-2011 7:32 AM


Re: Single land mass
ICANT writes:
I just read the text and accept what it says.
After all I am arguing what the KJV Bible says.
ICANT writes:
The word mountain did not exist until the 12the century and until the middle of the 18th century it was used to describe the hills around Paris.
I am unable to reconcile these contrary statements.

If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue

This message is a reply to:
 Message 115 by ICANT, posted 10-25-2011 7:32 AM ICANT has not replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3738 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 283 of 306 (641241)
11-18-2011 6:06 AM
Reply to: Message 282 by IamJoseph
11-18-2011 1:36 AM


Re: LET THE TRUTH SET YOU FREE - OR EXPOSE A LIE.
IamJ writes:
Deuteronomy Chapter 13
1 All this word which I command you, that shall ye observe to do; thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.
That is not Deuteronomy 13:1.
Try again.

If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue

This message is a reply to:
 Message 282 by IamJoseph, posted 11-18-2011 1:36 AM IamJoseph has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 284 by IamJoseph, posted 11-18-2011 6:56 AM Panda has not replied

  
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