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Author Topic:   What the KJV Bible says about the Noah Flood
IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 2908 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 226 of 306 (639704)
11-03-2011 4:25 AM
Reply to: Message 225 by ICANT
11-03-2011 1:49 AM


Re: ONCE MORE WITH FEELINGS.
quote:
The dry land of Genesis 1:9, 10 was called earth.

If the face of that dry land was covered with water where was the dry land left under the heavens where all land under the heavens was covered with 15 cubits of water.


Earth refers to all land. The variance of cubit measures do not impact the size what would allow all life forms to fit, so why go there.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 225 by ICANT, posted 11-03-2011 1:49 AM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 233 by ICANT, posted 11-03-2011 4:08 PM IamJoseph has replied

  
IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 2908 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 227 of 306 (639705)
11-03-2011 4:30 AM
Reply to: Message 223 by ICANT
11-03-2011 1:26 AM


Re: look at what the God characters say
quote:
You are limiting God's abilities and power.

If He couldn't have all kinds of wild animals get on the ark how will He be able to get the lion to eat straw and lay down by the lamb?


I don't see it that way. That God is omnipotent is generic; it does not negate the parametres of what is and is not coherent from a human POV.

quote:

According to Genesis 7:19, 20 all the high hills under the whole heaven was covered with 15 cubits of water.

That don't leave any dry land anywhere.


15 cubits is a small amount; it has no relevency with covering the earth. There is a diminishing series of rejections, but it won't result in a backdown for sure.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 223 by ICANT, posted 11-03-2011 1:26 AM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 234 by ICANT, posted 11-03-2011 4:16 PM IamJoseph has replied

  
IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 2908 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 228 of 306 (639706)
11-03-2011 4:40 AM
Reply to: Message 221 by ICANT
11-03-2011 1:10 AM


Re: ONCE MORE WITH FEELINGS.
quote:
That is not a verse that is animals.

This verse covers the snakes, worms, and elephants.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
11:42 Whatsoever goeth upon the belly, and whatsoever goeth upon all four, or whatsoever hath more feet among all creeping things that creep upon the earth, them ye shall not eat; for they are an abomination.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


That is well outside the Noah story. Have you not wondered why this verse is not in the Noah story - when it should be if based on a global flood? It is easy to see how a host of factors have been ignored, resulting in outlandish conclusions.

The main problem has been cherry picking verses out of context with the entire reportings and leaving out pivotal verses. The other issue is that two of the biggest religions have a vested interest in negating the Hebrew - it is an affront to their core beliefs. Then you have the anti-religionists who save all their anxst to the pet scapegoat, which is a good career move as well. I am not a religionist but also I don't follow all the thrash hurled around at the least incoherent theological writings. Its always the multitiude that is wrong.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 221 by ICANT, posted 11-03-2011 1:10 AM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 235 by ICANT, posted 11-03-2011 4:42 PM IamJoseph has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33913
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 229 of 306 (639725)
11-03-2011 10:08 AM
Reply to: Message 215 by IamJoseph
11-02-2011 10:56 PM


Re: look at what the God characters say
Lots of unsupported assertions in there and also lots of falsehoods and utter nonsense.

When you post word salad like "The 10 C's were given on a saturday, by virtue of its calculus proof - something which cannot be improvised from millions of datings and numbers inerspersed of a 3000 year period, with no errors, in the absence of a super pc or record of that entire period. " it just shows everyone that you are simply making stuff up.

And it still has nothing to do with what the KJV says about the Noahic Flood.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 215 by IamJoseph, posted 11-02-2011 10:56 PM IamJoseph has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 230 by IamJoseph, posted 11-03-2011 10:54 AM jar has replied

  
IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 2908 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 230 of 306 (639730)
11-03-2011 10:54 AM
Reply to: Message 229 by jar
11-03-2011 10:08 AM


Re: look at what the God characters say
quote:
Lots of unsupported assertions in there and also lots of falsehoods and utter nonsense.

So providing evidence seen in hard copy in an ancient writings displaying the epitome of mathematical accuracy as in....

quote:

"The 10 C's were given on a saturday, by virtue of its calculus proof - something which cannot be improvised from millions of datings and numbers inerspersed of a 3000 year period, with no errors, in the absence of a super pc or record of that entire period. " it just shows everyone that you are simply making stuff up.

is....

quote:
When you post word salad.

And

And it still has nothing to do with what the KJV says about the Noahic Flood.


How does one then judge the merit of a passage of writing if not by its merit in other passages? Can one passage be totally fable and foolish, while others its absolute reverse? Can you point us to any ancient writings, or in fact anything in all of recorded history, which can equate with the proof I cited of math excellence - as opposed philosophy and dogma? I see your response as word salad, and great wisdom in the Hebrew writings, including the Noah story.

I also gave proof that people in ancient times were wholly focused on their village and towns as the focal point of the world, as in the story of Lot and his two daughters. That is hard copy proof the people in Noah's time, much earlier than Lot, would have also seen the flood as a global one. That is not word salad and it has much to do with the thread topic - even if it is ignored and not admitted as such.

Edited by IamJoseph, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 229 by jar, posted 11-03-2011 10:08 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 231 by jar, posted 11-03-2011 11:00 AM IamJoseph has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33913
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 231 of 306 (639731)
11-03-2011 11:00 AM
Reply to: Message 230 by IamJoseph
11-03-2011 10:54 AM


Re: look at what the God characters say
Yet more rabbit holes and word salad.

And still nothing related to what the King James Authorized Version of the Bible has to say about the Noahic Flood myths.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 230 by IamJoseph, posted 11-03-2011 10:54 AM IamJoseph has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 232 by IamJoseph, posted 11-03-2011 11:02 AM jar has seen this message

  
IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 2908 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 232 of 306 (639732)
11-03-2011 11:02 AM
Reply to: Message 231 by jar
11-03-2011 11:00 AM


Re: look at what the God characters say
I responded to every post, accurately and in context. Most were disregarded and frog leaped to new charges. You just did so to my last post!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 231 by jar, posted 11-03-2011 11:00 AM jar has seen this message

  
ICANT
Member (Idle past 192 days)
Posts: 6426
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 233 of 306 (639754)
11-03-2011 4:08 PM
Reply to: Message 226 by IamJoseph
11-03-2011 4:25 AM


Re: ONCE MORE WITH FEELINGS.
Hi Joseph,

IamJoseph writes:

Earth refers to all land. The variance of cubit measures do not impact the size what would allow all life forms to fit, so why go there.

What does that Gish Gallop have to do with the question I asked.

Here is the question again and I will try to simplify it so you can understand the question.

quote:
The dry land of Genesis 1:9, 10 was called earth.
If the face of that dry land was covered with water where was the dry land left under the heavens where all land under the heavens was covered with 15 cubits of water.

There was a dry land mass that the water left visible when the water gathered to one place. Genesis 1:9, 10.

I believe the dry land mass was all in one place but that is immaterial to what we are discussing.

The dry land mass could have been shaped just as it is today.

Everything would be covered by water.

quote:
Genesis 7:19 And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered.

7:20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.


1. All the high hills were covered. Not some of the high hills.

2. All the high hills that were under the whole heaven was covered with 15 cubits of water.

Using the short Hebrew cubit there was 22.25 feet of water.
Using the long Hebrew cubit there was 25.8375 feet of water.
Using the Holy cubit there was 31.2875 feet of water.

The amount of water is immaterial. The highest part of dry land that existed under the whole heaven was covered by 15 cubits of water.

Therefore if there was any dry land it was not on the planet earth, as it had to be out from under the heaven.

Now if you want to argue that there was not enough room on the ark for two of 'ALL' creatures plus the extra clean creatures figure up the amount of cubic feet required for them to exist on the ark and I will see if I can get them to fit. There are between 10,000 and 17,000 species alive today.

The size of the cubit used by Noah does make a big difference in the size of the ark.

Using the smallest Hebrew cubit there was 1,468,685.403465 cubic feet in the ark.

Using the Holy cubit there was 4,011,000 cubic feet.

So the size of the cubit makes a big difference.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 226 by IamJoseph, posted 11-03-2011 4:25 AM IamJoseph has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 236 by IamJoseph, posted 11-03-2011 7:56 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member (Idle past 192 days)
Posts: 6426
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 234 of 306 (639755)
11-03-2011 4:16 PM
Reply to: Message 227 by IamJoseph
11-03-2011 4:30 AM


Re: look at what the God characters say
Hi Joseph,

IamJoseph writes:

I don't see it that way. That God is omnipotent is generic; it does not negate the parametres of what is and is not coherent from a human POV.

What does the human POV have to do with what God does.

God said: "And of every living thing of all flesh"...

Every living thing does not change from every to some just because you want it too or believe that it does.

IamJoseph writes:

15 cubits is a small amount; it has no relevency with covering the earth. There is a diminishing series of rejections, but it won't result in a backdown for sure.

15 cubits of water on the highest hill under the heaven does not leave any dry land.

If you disagree please explain how there would be any dry land anywhere if the highest point of dry land on planet earth was covered with 15 cubits of water.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 227 by IamJoseph, posted 11-03-2011 4:30 AM IamJoseph has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 238 by IamJoseph, posted 11-03-2011 10:03 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member (Idle past 192 days)
Posts: 6426
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 235 of 306 (639756)
11-03-2011 4:42 PM
Reply to: Message 228 by IamJoseph
11-03-2011 4:40 AM


Re: ONCE MORE WITH FEELINGS.
Hi Joseph,

IamJoseph writes:

That is well outside the Noah story.

Yes but it declares what is a clean animal and and unclean animal.

The snake, and worms go on their belly and the elephant goes on all fours. All of these are listed as unclean animals.

You are the one claiming they were not on the ark, not me.

quote:
Genesis 7:13 In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark;

7:14 They, and every beast after his kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind, and every fowl after his kind, every bird of every sort.

7:15 And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life..


Two of everything that breathed of ALL flesh went into the ark.

I guess Noah was responsible for the rest of the clean animals because they did not load themselves.

IamJoseph writes:

The main problem has been cherry picking verses out of context with the entire reportings and leaving out pivotal verses.

Is the three verses presented above cherry picking?

IamJoseph writes:

Its always the multitiude that is wrong.

Since I am a minority of 1 as no one believes what I do then I have to be correct, if your statement is correct.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 228 by IamJoseph, posted 11-03-2011 4:40 AM IamJoseph has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 237 by IamJoseph, posted 11-03-2011 8:28 PM ICANT has replied

  
IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 2908 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 236 of 306 (639780)
11-03-2011 7:56 PM
Reply to: Message 233 by ICANT
11-03-2011 4:08 PM


Re: ONCE MORE WITH FEELINGS.
quote:
Here is the question again and I will try to simplify it so you can understand the question.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The dry land of Genesis 1:9, 10 was called earth.
If the face of that dry land was covered with water where was the dry land left under the heavens where all land under the heavens was covered with 15 cubits of water.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There was a dry land mass that the water left visible when the water gathered to one place. Genesis 1:9, 10.

I believe the dry land mass was all in one place but that is immaterial to what we are discussing.

The dry land mass could have been shaped just as it is today.

Everything would be covered by water.


The opening preamble of Genesis relates to

V1. The earth is focused upon, seperating it from all the rest of lands [other space bodies like stars, moons and planets]; indeed the entire five books focus only the earth, which is to appoint the subject matter - it is about one planet now; it is talking to forthcoming humans of their origins and history [who/what else!?]. It also means the term earth, in this instance, refers to solid earth as opposed water. The solid matter [earth] on this planet, was covered with water. There is no other meanings here - nothing else yet existed on this planet to mention about. There was yet no light focused on this planet as today; there was no seperation of day and night, or water from land before this point, nor any life yet existed. There was no evolution or environment yet.

Then we go to the later verse you quoted:

1.9. 'The dry was called earth': this aligns with V1, namely all dry land [not submerged in water, and solid] is called earth. Also, this marks the first thresold of seperations on the earth [this planet] of water from land; indeed there was no water created outside of this planet. Also, it is listing this seperation as a pointer of what is forthcoming - namely life; why else to mention this here; note the next forthcoming items which follow, namely "life"? There is no ther reading here - nothing else existed; only life is referred to; this is also the beginning of we call environment and nature today - these are created, designed processes, the wiring of the earth workings. Nothing to do with Noah, but it is a higher, global description of the early earth pre-life. It is vital to know this; it is also perfect grammar protocol when considered.

Yes/no?

quote:

the earth being covered with water and when no life existed yet.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Genesis 7:19 And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered.
7:20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. All the high hills were covered. Not some of the high hills.


Now you have gone to chapter 7 - another time, another specific sector zoomed into. This is well after all life forms and many lands and regions existed and seperated, and the focus is on one small region, not all the earth, namely of one region of Noah. It does not concern Adam, Cain, Tasmania, Egypt, Mount Everest, etc. The text is only referring to Noah's region. Note the opening verse in this chapter 7 which you disregarded:

7/1: 'Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before Me in this generation'

It refers to Noah in this [his] generation. COME THOU; ALL THY HOUSE; THIS [NOAH'S] GENERATION; NOAH'S ENVIRONMENT. Indeed and most impacting, it does NOT say that Noah was rightious, because this is limited to Noah's generation, his community. Indeed, Noah may not have been found rightious in another generation of town or community. The verse is also saying that Noah's rightiousness was 'limited'; that most people around him were abolsutely corrupted beyond the point of saving, unless they change their ways. Indeed Noah turned out to be a drunk; as soon as the flood was over he planted 'vine' [booze!] not grains. Indeed the demeaning, qualifying term 'in this' generation" is not included with Abraham and Moses - Noah was NOT rightious compared to others in different generations. Indeed Noah was markedly inferior to Abraham and Moses - both these figures totally rejected God's pledge to destroy all of Sodom and all of the Israelite nation - they battled with God over this saving for humanity, respectively in each case; Noah did not! Thus the words 'IN THIS [YOUR] BAD GENERATION, YOU NOAH JUST BARELY WAS FOUND RIGHTIOUS. Read, Noah was different in a negative way from Abraham and Moses:

'WILL THE JUDGE OF ALL JUDGES TAKE THE INNOCENT [CHILDREN OF SODOM] ALONG WITH THE GUILTY - THIS EVIIL BE FAR AWAY FROM YOU' [Abraham]
'FIRST TAKE ME OUT OF YOUR BOOK BEFORE DESTROYING THIS NATION OF ISRAEL' [Moses]

Noah: "BLANK!" [Gee, thanks for saving me, my family, my possessions - I don't care for others].

quote:

2. All the high hills that were under the whole heaven was covered with 15 cubits of water.


This is again referring to Noah and his generation, not the opening V1 which refers to the point before water and land were seperated globally. Here, V7/1 applies, its not connected with Chapter 1; its about one particular region here - not the whole planet; its talking to and about Noah and Noah's [this/your] generation only. The animals and humans in Europe or Egypt are not referred to here, else V7/1 becomes compromised to the extent of being superfluous, even incoherent. Wrong way - go back.

quote:

Using the short Hebrew cubit there was 22.25 feet of water.
Using the long Hebrew cubit there was 25.8375 feet of water.
Using the Holy cubit there was 31.2875 feet of water.

The amount of water is immaterial. The highest part of dry land that existed under the whole heaven was covered by 15 cubits of water.

Therefore if there was any dry land it was not on the planet earth, as it had to be out from under the heaven.

Now if you want to argue that there was not enough room on the ark for two of 'ALL' creatures plus the extra clean creatures figure up the amount of cubic feet required for them to exist on the ark and I will see if I can get them to fit. There are between 10,000 and 17,000 species alive today.

The size of the cubit used by Noah does make a big difference in the size of the ark.

Using the smallest Hebrew cubit there was 1,468,685.403465 cubic feet in the ark.

Using the Holy cubit there was 4,011,000 cubic feet.

So the size of the cubit makes a big difference.


The size of reading the length of a cubit is aligned only with the size of the ark; the measurements are not as you defined. It is roughly about one side being about 50 feet as we know 50 feet today; telephone numbers do not apply; six digits as yet never applied in Noah's time or understanding. This is also what can only be read from the text and how many animals can fit therein. This is also the translation in the oral law, which came directly from Moses when long ques existed as the laws were handed down in the 40 year period of desert wonderings in 42 such stops. The oral law was not accepted by Christianity - because it included interpretations of Monotheism and other laws which was unacceptable to Christianity [No graven images for worship; ony the soul that sinneth it shall pay]. Indeed, Christianity cannot survive if those laws were accepted as per the law of Moses. Christianity would have then had no choice but to disregard and/or fulfill away those interpretations [as its life saver]; and the other interpretations between those who accepted those oral laws from Moses [as seen accepted by Islam, a people with more credibility of this region than that of Europe in this particular instant only]; indeed all the writngs and dictionaries and encyclopedia of the modern world would reflected the Christian understanding; it is the foremost educator of the wrd and humanity; but not yet confirmed as right. The matter impacts on all the non-Hebrew world and is today the substantial understanding of the Hebrew bible - its loony tunes and walt disney stuff, yet the winning multitide. That is manifest tday - there is chaos and humanity is pointing to disaster ahead.

Edited by IamJoseph, : No reason given.

Edited by IamJoseph, : No reason given.

Edited by IamJoseph, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 233 by ICANT, posted 11-03-2011 4:08 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 239 by ICANT, posted 11-03-2011 11:08 PM IamJoseph has replied

  
IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 2908 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 237 of 306 (639784)
11-03-2011 8:28 PM
Reply to: Message 235 by ICANT
11-03-2011 4:42 PM


Re: ONCE MORE WITH FEELINGS.
quote:
IamJoseph writes:
That is well outside the Noah story.

Yes but it declares what is a clean animal and and unclean animal.

The snake, and worms go on their belly and the elephant goes on all fours. All of these are listed as unclean animals.

You are the one claiming they were not on the ark, not me.


It refers to clean and unclean animals in "Noah's possessions"

No sir. The verse is about Two of everything that breathed of ALL flesh went into the ark - IN NOAH'S SURROUNDS ONLY; NOAH'S POSSESSIONS ONLY. This must align with Ch7/1; namely THOU, THY HOUSEHOLD, YOUR GENERATION.

quote:

I guess Noah was responsible for the rest of the clean animals because they did not load themselves.


There you go! Do you now see the ubsurdity of your take here?

quote:

IamJoseph writes:
The main problem has been cherry picking verses out of context with the entire reportings and leaving out pivotal verses.

Is the three verses presented above cherry picking?


Of course! You have connected a global pre-life point [chapter 1 - the creation chapter], with a later post-life scenario. Its like saying if there is a tsunami in Asia before life existed with Briton today. It disregards the opening verse in chapter 7, which is not applicable in chapter 1.

quote:
Its always the multitiude that is wrong.

Since I am a minority of 1 as no one believes what I do then I have to be correct, if your statement is correct.


But the majority is on your side! Here, the Hebrew version is the minority. Thus it does not say not to follow the minority; it says the oppositte:

"THEREFORE YOU SHALL NOT FOLLOW A CORRUPTED MAJORITY/MULTITUDE." This refers to Christianty.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 235 by ICANT, posted 11-03-2011 4:42 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 240 by ICANT, posted 11-03-2011 11:57 PM IamJoseph has taken no action

  
IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 2908 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 238 of 306 (639790)
11-03-2011 10:03 PM
Reply to: Message 234 by ICANT
11-03-2011 4:16 PM


Re: look at what the God characters say
quote:
What does the human POV have to do with what God does.

God said: "And of every living thing of all flesh"...

Every living thing does not change from every to some just because you want it too or believe that it does.


Its not about every living thing changes. Its about every living thing in "Noah's generation/region." Consider, ALL THE EARTH'S WATER [applying to all water on the planet], and "ALL THE EARTH'S WATER IN YOUR HOUSEHOLD." Consider this is put to Noah and his household and possessions - you keep flying over the cookoo's net here in disregarding the impacting text!

quote:

15 cubits is a small amount; it has no relevency with covering the earth. There is a diminishing series of rejections, but it won't result in a backdown for sure.

15 cubits of water on the highest hill under the heaven does not leave any dry land.


Yes it is! It can only apply to Noah's small region. How or why else would a boat rise, be saved and all the world be submerged?

quote:

If you disagree please explain how there would be any dry land anywhere if the highest point of dry land on planet earth was covered with 15 cubits of water.


15 cubits is a small amount of water which can only apply to a regional flood. If the entire planet was covered with water, as in before the water and land was seperated in Chapter 1, there would be no mountains!

Edited by IamJoseph, : No reason given.

Edited by IamJoseph, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 234 by ICANT, posted 11-03-2011 4:16 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 242 by ICANT, posted 11-04-2011 2:01 PM IamJoseph has replied

  
ICANT
Member (Idle past 192 days)
Posts: 6426
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 239 of 306 (639792)
11-03-2011 11:08 PM
Reply to: Message 236 by IamJoseph
11-03-2011 7:56 PM


Re: ONCE MORE WITH FEELINGS.
Hi Joseph,

IamJoseph writes:

It also means the term earth, in this instance, refers to solid earth as opposed water.

I agree as in Genesis 1:1 there was no ocean.

IamJoseph writes:

The solid matter [earth] on this planet, was covered with water.

Not in Genesis 1:1. It was not covered with water until some time later as it is found covered with water in Genesis 1:2.

You say how do you know there was no water in Genesis 1:1?
Simple, all you have to do is read the history of the day the Lord God created the Earth and the heavens. Genesis 2:4

Genesis 2:5 there was no plants, and no rain.

Genesis 2:6 there was a mist that watered the whole face of the Earth.

Genesis 2:7 God formed man from the dust of the ground.

Genesis 2:8 God planted a Garden in Eden.

Genesis 2:9 God caused trees to grow out of the ground.

Genesis 2:10 A river went out of Eden and watered the Garden.

Genesis 2:19 God formed animals and fowl out of the ground.

Genesis 2:22 God made a woman out of a rib he took from the man.

There is no sea or seas mentioned neither is there any fish mentioned.

IamJoseph writes:

There was yet no light focused on this planet as today;

You base that upon what?

IamJoseph writes:

there was no seperation of day and night,

I agree there was no separation of light and darkness as darkness did not exist in Genesis 1:1.

Darkness did not exist until it is found in Genesis 1:2.

IamJoseph writes:

1.9. 'The dry was called earth': this aligns with V1, namely all dry land [not submerged in water, and solid] is called earth.

How can verse 9 align with verse 1? There was no water in verse 1.

IamJoseph writes:

Also, this marks the first thresold of seperations on the earth [this planet] of water from land;

The text does not say anything about the water and land being separated.

It simply says the dry land appeared when the water gathered to one place.

IamJoseph writes:

Now you have gone to chapter 7 - another time, another specific sector zoomed into. This is well after all life forms and many lands and regions existed and seperated, and the focus is on one small region, not all the earth, namely of one region of Noah. It does not concern Adam, Cain, Tasmania, Egypt, Mount Everest, etc. The text is only referring to Noah's region. Note the opening verse in this chapter 7 which you disregarded:

Are you saying chapter 6 and chapter 7 are talking about two arks and two floods that Noah went through?

IamJoseph writes:

7/1: 'Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before Me in this generation'

It refers to Noah in this [his] generation. COME THOU; ALL THY HOUSE; THIS [NOAH'S] GENERATION; NOAH'S ENVIRONMENT.

Are you saying this means something other than what this says?

quote:
7:13 In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark;

We got Noah and we got Noah's sons that equals 2 generations.

Noah and his wife went into the ark.
Shem Ham and Japheth and their wives went into the ark.

House in Genesis 7:1 should have been translated family which is one of the meanings of the Hebrew word bayith.

IamJosephIndeed and most impacting, it does NOT say that Noah was rightious, because this is limited to Noah's generation, his community. Indeed, Noah may not have been found rightious in another generation of town or community. The verse is also saying that Noah's rightiousness was 'limited'; that most people around him were abolsutely corrupted beyond the point of saving, unless they change their ways.

quote:
Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

Noah was righteous because he believed and obeyed God.

If you think Abrahan or Moses or you are more righteous than Noah was you are in deep trouble.

Abrahan comitted adultry and bare a son by Sarah's handmaid.
Moses failed to obey God and speak to the rock and did not enter the promised land because of that disobedience.

You will have to examine your own life.

But I will let you in on a little secret. I am not worthy now nor will I ever be for the grace of God that has been poured out to me. I do not deserve to go to heaven for any reason other than I have been washed in the blood of Jesus Christ who is the only way to heaven.

IamJoseph writes:

Indeed Noah turned out to be a drunk; as soon as the flood was over he planted 'vine' [booze!] not grains.

Do you know how long it would take the grape vine to grow and produce fruit.

But then if his squezed grape juice had never fermented before why would he expect it to ferment after the flood?

IamJoseph writes:

YOU NOAH JUST BARELY WAS FOUND RIGHTIOUS.

What do you back that assertion up with?

IamJoseph writes:

Noah: "BLANK!" [Gee, thanks for saving me, my family, my possessions - I don't care for others].

After being a wittness for 120 years to everyone that came by and asked what he was doing building that monstrosity and him telling them God was going to flood the earth what would you expect him to say?

IamJoseph writes:

quote:

2. All the high hills that were under the whole heaven was covered with 15 cubits of water.


This is again referring to Noah and his generation, not the opening V1 which refers to the point before water and land were seperated globally. Here, V7/1 applies, its not connected with Chapter 1; its about one particular region here - not the whole planet; its talking to and about Noah and Noah's [this/your] generation only. The animals and humans in Europe or Egypt are not referred to here, else V7/1 becomes compromised to the extent of being superfluous, even incoherent. Wrong way - go back.

What part of ALL do you not understand?

What is your meaning for ALL?

What part of under the WHOLE HEAVEN do you not understand?

What is your meaning for whole heaven?

IamJoseph writes:

The size of reading the length of a cubit is aligned only with the size of the ark; the measurements are not as you defined. It is roughly about one side being about 50 feet as we know 50 feet today;

Where do you get that nonsense from?

What did they use to measure with?

quote:
Some general facts about Cubits: Cubit means elbow or forearm. A cubit is an ancient unit of measure used throughout the Old Testament. The Cubit originates as early as 3000 BC (about 5000 years ago), and is the distance from the elbow to the end of the middle finger, approx. 17"-22", or 45.4 - 55.5cm. Because everyone's cubit is different, a leader or foreman would have all of the workers use his standardized cubit rod (measuring reed) at construction sites. Cubit, KYOO biht, is a measure of length used by several early civilizations. While no one knows exactly when this measure was established. The cubit was commonly used by many early people including: the Babylonians, the Egyptians, and the Israelites.

Using my measurment from my elbow to the tip of my middle finger is 24 inches.

My hand is 4.25 inches wide and using that measurment of 6 handwidths would give a cubit as 25 1/2 inches.

IamJoseph writes:

Indeed, Christianity cannot survive if those laws were accepted as per the law of Moses. Christianity would have then had no choice but to disregard and/or fulfill away those interpretations [as its life saver];

Gentiles are not under the law and have never been under the law of Moses.

The Church was not organized and told to keep the law of Moses.

I am under the law of Grace and have two commandments to keep.

Love the Lord my God with all my being and love my neighbor as myself.

If you disagree start a thread and we will discuss it.

IamJoseph writes:

there is chaos and humanity is pointing to disaster ahead.

I agree.

According to my God all those who will not accept the sacrifice offered for their sins on the cross of Calvary is going to end up in the lake of fire with the devil and his angels.

No one deserves eternal life with God.
No one can buy it.
No one can earn it.
No one can do enough works to obtain it.
The only thing a man can do is accept it as a free gift from God.
John 3:16-18, Eph. 2:8-10, Rom. 3:23-28, 6:23.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 236 by IamJoseph, posted 11-03-2011 7:56 PM IamJoseph has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 241 by IamJoseph, posted 11-04-2011 1:40 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member (Idle past 192 days)
Posts: 6426
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 240 of 306 (639793)
11-03-2011 11:57 PM
Reply to: Message 237 by IamJoseph
11-03-2011 8:28 PM


Re: ONCE MORE WITH FEELINGS.
Hi Joseph,

IamJoseph writes:

"Noah's possessions"

I know you believe that now back it up with text.

IamJoseph writes:

NOAH'S SURROUNDS ONLY;

If you don't have anything but 7:1 to support that assertion you are guilty of cherry picking and taking a verse out of context.

IamJoseph writes:

There you go! Do you now see the ubsurdity of your take here?

Who is being absured?

quote:
Genesis 7:2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.

If I am seeing correctly that says clean beast by sevens.
Unclean beasts by two, male and female.

quote:
Genesis 7:13 In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark;

7:14 They, and every beast after his kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind, and every fowl after his kind, every bird of every sort.

7:15 And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.

7:16 And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the LORD shut him in.


Now if I am seeing straight that says Noah and his wife went into the ark. It also says Shem, Ham, and Japheth along with their wives went into the ark.

Then it says every beast after his kind and all other critters boarded the ark.

They went in male and female of all flesh as God had commanded.

Then God shut the door.

If Noah had not already put 5 each of all clean animals on the ark they didn't make it according to the text.

IamJoseph writes:

Of course! You have connected a global pre-life point [chapter 1 - the creation chapter], with a later post-life scenario. Its like saying if there is a tsunami in Asia before life existed with Briton today. It disregards the opening verse in chapter 7, which is not applicable in chapter 1.

quote:
quote:
Genesis 7:13 In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark;

7:14 They, and every beast after his kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind, and every fowl after his kind, every bird of every sort.

7:15 And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life..


Is the three verses presented above cherry picking?


Now you can stop your bald faced lying or you and I are done.

I am going to ask the question 1 more time and I expect an honest answer or I am done.

There is nothing in those 3 verses from chapter 1 conecting anything to them.

If your reading ability and comphrension is that bad you need to spend the time you are spending here at EvC going to night school and learn a little English.

IamJoseph writes:

"THEREFORE YOU SHALL NOT FOLLOW A CORRUPTED MAJORITY/MULTITUDE." This refers to Christianty.

Who are you quoting in this quote?

BTW if you know of someone who believes as I do would you please give me their email address as I would love to find somebody, anybody that believes as I do.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 237 by IamJoseph, posted 11-03-2011 8:28 PM IamJoseph has taken no action

  
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