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Author Topic:   What the KJV Bible says about the Noah Flood
IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 1832 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 271 of 306 (640961)
11-14-2011 8:38 PM
Reply to: Message 270 by Butterflytyrant
11-14-2011 11:15 AM


Re: look at what the Atheist characters say
quote:
Notice how in your post you make a whole heap of claims with no supporting evience of any type. The only thing this suggests is that there is no supporting evidence.

Actually, I provided evidence for 'everything' you asked for, with no omissions any place.

quote:

Loads of evidence prior to the discovery of the stelle of the existence of King David? Lets take a look at that claim -

To most Israelis it is axiomatic that the celebrations for the 3,000th anniversary of the conquest of Jerusalem by King David mark a real and tangible event; but this is far from certain.


There was no conquest! Jerusalem is a Hebrew name, situated in the original Israelite land where they were incepted. My history book says the Jews have never occupied another peoples' land in all their 4000 year history; this is true even when one becomes desperate to go back to 3000 years. My history book says the reverse of those who make such charges. Your omissions keep piling up.

Are you even aware that land cannot be given to Jews even for free: there is a command NOT TO TAKE EVEN A CUBIT OF ANOTHER PEOPLE'S LAND. This is why the Jews did not accept massive chunks of land in Africa and Australia, returning only to their tiny, barren land they came from. They never robbed Pakistan, Kashmir, Bangladesh, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, all those Gulf states, Krakow or Moscow. Egypt is land stolen from the Copts; Lebanon is land stolen from the Christians; yet no one bothers. Maybe we should get some Jews there - that will impact! All 22 Regime states are fictions, created by Britain for 30 barrels of oil, constituting a real, non-virtual Judas. And who is going to take Britain to task - the Pope!? The greatest Post-W.W.II crime is the corruption of the Balfour and the transfering of the name Palestinian onto Muslims - a name held exclusively by Jews for 2000 years. These are covert, new forms of genocide via Heil Hitler salutes at the UN. It is also why Eurabia is happening!

quote:

The biblical account of the capture of the city is the only one we have, and in the opinion of most modern scholars, the Bible is not an entirely reliable historical document. Corroborating evidence is required, and some indeed exists; but it is not conclusive. When all the available information has been assembled, the most that can be said is that there was probably an Israelite ruler called David, who made Jerusalem his capital sometime in the tenth century bce. However, the precise date cannot be determined, and consequently there is no way of knowing exactly when the anniversary falls.


David established Jerusalem on Israeli land: not in Pakistan or Saudi Arabia - new states which never existed 100 years ago; stolen from surrounding peoples. A small portion used for Jerusalem, a hill top, was purchased from the Jebusites, who were allies. In return they were given protection from outside invaders. The Hebrew bible is the world's most reliable scripture. The dates can be established via relics discovered and align with the writings.

quote:

Until very recently, there was no evidence outside the Bible for the existence of King David.


There was evidence. Jerusalem; a temple once existing; numerous wars with other nations; the conquest of the Philistines; the Psalms; the references to David from some 30 prophetic books; a geneology listing. The scholars were stupid, agenda based and proven so.

quote:

So according to the State of Israel, until the finding of the Stelle there was "no evidence outside the Bible for the existence of King David". What constitutes the "loads of evidence" that you claim existed that the State of Israel was unaware of?


There was no proof, as opposed evidence. It must be remembered the land of the Jews were occupied by invading peoples, including Christians and Muslims, and these have a notorious history of destroying evidence, and spreading horrific falsehoods around the world - all based on 'belief'. A billion Muslims today hold that Abraham, Moses and David were Muslims, with no mention of his race and religion whatsoever. This when both Islam and the Arab race never existed in David's time. Muslims have no cionnection with Ishmael - check it out! Muslims also have no connection with the term Palestinian - check that out too. These false histories were promoted by European Popes as a covert genocide of the Jews!

quote:
There was merit in their statements that King David did not exist. There was no evidence to say that he did exist.

There was no merit; this has now been proven. There is no merit that Jesus or any of the apostles ever existed. Your omissions are becoming taller than you.

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There is more evidences [as opposed hard proof] of Moses than Jesus and every name listed in the NT!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

what you actually menat to say was -

There is more evidences [as opposed hard proof] of Moses than Jesus and every name listed in the NT apart from all of the names that refute this statement.

Gotcha.


There is no proof or evidence of the Gospel figures. Zilch. Yet 2B super advanced and progressive people fully believe this. It seems this belief does not require proof - one of the most mysterious factors within humanity's history.

quote:

So you have not researched one of the most famous Hindu mystics that ever lived. A mystic who outperformed Jesus in regards to miracles with many current, living eyewitneses. You are unaware of this man, yet seem to believe you have made an educated decision with regards to your faith. He out performs Moses and Jesus combined. I get the feeling from most of your posts that if you dont know about something, it does not exist.


I admire many Indian cultures and their generous attitudes to others. However, miracles which are based on frivolous actions do not impress me, and these always smack of slight of hand. When a miracle has impacts on humanity and for all generations, such as to establish premises of Liberty and inalienable human rights - those have credibility. The reports I've heard of your mystic have been most negative, even exposing fraud, however I have not checked up on this matter.

quote:
The list of pharoah names refutes your position but you dont count them because???

These are already listed as older in the Hebrew bible. I say very few can evidence a 3,200 year figure as historical; the Hebrew bible does. This gives credibility to a host of gfigures listed in the Hebrew, and which have cross-references by other nations. Your the one not acknowledging the merit of the Hebrew; many also calling it fables - the same who accept numerous figures from the Gospels with zero credibility. This tells me humanity is on a depraved path, upholing a totally unproven and falsified history, then causing mass murders on that premise.

quote:

The Sumerian Kinglist has dozens of names on it. There are not one, not two or three but sixteen known copies containing sections of this list. The oldest four sources used when discussing this list date from 2000BCE, 1817 BCE, 1712 BCE, 1250 BCE.


That is still few, and most of them are in dispute. Hamurabi is in dispute of his datings, as are a host of Greek figures.

quote:

Nice attempt to shift the goal posts. My comment was about evidence for proof of existence, not who was revered the most. Lots of kids love Santa, the Easter bunny, the tooth fairy, dorathy the dinosaur etc. This does not prove that they exist.


Santa has no proof of existence. Moses gave us hard copy laws which turn the world today. What did Santa give us? We should not look for hard proof of Moses - the text denies this possibility.

quote:
How many contemporary eyewitness accounts do you have for any of the actions of Moses?

3 Million Israelites and a mixed multitude of other peoples. This is described in the first scientific cencus, with sub-total of tribes, gender and age groups. Now if one wants to present a lie - they surely would not say millions were witness - would you?

OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message by continuing in this vein.
AdminPD

Edited by AdminPD, : Warning


This message is a reply to:
 Message 270 by Butterflytyrant, posted 11-14-2011 11:15 AM Butterflytyrant has not yet responded

    
IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 1832 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 272 of 306 (640962)
11-14-2011 8:45 PM
Reply to: Message 270 by Butterflytyrant
11-14-2011 11:15 AM


Re: look at what the Atheist characters say
quote:
Notice how in your post you make a whole heap of claims with no supporting evience of any type. The only thing this suggests is that there is no supporting evidence.

Actually, I provided evidence for 'everything' you asked for, with no omissions anyplace.

quote:

Loads of evidence prior to the discovery of the stelle of the existence of King David? Lets take a look at that claim -

To most Israelis it is axiomatic that the celebrations for the 3,000th anniversary of the conquest of Jerusalem by King David mark a real and tangible event; but this is far from certain.


There was no conquest! Jerusalem is a Hebrew name, situated in the original Israelite land where they were incepted. My history book says the Jews have never occupied another peoples' land in all their 4000 year history; this is true even when one becomes desperate to go back to 3000 years. My history bookn says the reverse of those who make such charges. Your omissions keep piling up.

quote:

The biblical account of the capture of the city is the only one we have, and in the opinion of most modern scholars, the Bible is not an entirely reliable historical document. Corroborating evidence is required, and some indeed exists; but it is not conclusive. When all the available information has been assembled, the most that can be said is that there was probably an Israelite ruler called David, who made Jerusalem his capital sometime in the tenth century bce. However, the precise date cannot be determined, and consequently there is no way of knowing exactly when the anniversary falls.


David established Jerusalem on Israeli land: not in Pakistan or Saudi Arabia - new states which never existed 100 years ago; stolen from surrounding peoples. A small portion used for Jerusalem, a hill top, was purchased from the Jebusites, who were allies. In return they were given protection from outside invaders. The Hebrew bible is the world's most reliable scripture. The dates can be established via relics discovered and align with the writings.

quote:

Until very recently, there was no evidence outside the Bible for the existence of King David.


There was evidence. Jerusalem; a temple once existing; numerous wars with other nations; the conquest of the Philistines; the Psalms; the references to David from some 30 prophetic books; a geneology listing. The scholars were stupid, agenda based and proven so.

quote:

So according to the State of Israel, until the finding of the Stelle there was "no evidence outside the Bible for the existence of King David". What constitutes the "loads of evidence" that you claim existed that the State of Israel was unaware of?


There was no proof, as opposed evidence. It must be remembered the land of the Jews were occupied by invading peoples, including Christians and Muslims, and these have a notorious history of destroying evidence, and spreading horrific falsehoods around the world - all based on 'belief'. A billion Muslims today hold that Abraham, Moses and David were Muslims, with no mention of his race and religion whatsoever. This when both Islam and the Arab race never existed in David's time. Muslims have no cionnection with Ishmael - check it out! Muslims also have no connection with the term Palestinian - check that out too. These false histories were promoted by European Popes as a covert genocide of the Jews!

quote:
There was merit in their statements that King David did not exist. There was no evidence to say that he did exist.

There was no merit; this has now been proven. There is no merit that Jesus or any of the apostles ever existed. Your omissions are becoming taller than you.

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There is more evidences [as opposed hard proof] of Moses than Jesus and every name listed in the NT!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

what you actually menat to say was -

There is more evidences [as opposed hard proof] of Moses than Jesus and every name listed in the NT apart from all of the names that refute this statement.

Gotcha.


There is no proof or evidence of the Gospel figures. Zilch. Yet 2B super advanced and progressive people fully believe this. It seems this belief does not require proof - one of the most mysterious factors within humanity's history.

quote:

So you have not researched one of the most famous Hindu mystics that ever lived. A mystic who outperformed Jesus in regards to miracles with many current, living eyewitneses. You are unaware of this man, yet seem to believe you have made an educated decision with regards to your faith. He out performs Moses and Jesus combined. I get the feeling from most of your posts that if you dont know about something, it does not exist.


I admire many Indian cultures and their generous attitudes to others. However, miracles which are based on frivolous actions do not impress me, and these always smack of slight of hand. When a miracle has impacts on humanity and for all generations, such as to establish premises of Liberty and inalienable human rights - those have credibility. The reports I've heard of your mystic have been most negative, even exposing fraud, however I have not checked up on this matter.

quote:
The list of pharoah names refutes your position but you dont count them because???

These are already listed as older in the Hebrew bible. I say very few can evidence a 3,200 year figure as historical; the Hebrew bible does. This gives credibility to a host of figures listed in the Hebrew, and which have cross-references by other nations. Your the one not acknowledging the merit of the Hebrew; many also calling it fables - the same who accept numerous figures from the Gospels with zero credibility. This tells me humanity is on a depraved path, upholing a totally unproven and falsified history, then causing mass murders on that premise.

quote:

The Sumerian Kinglist has dozens of names on it. There are not one, not two or three but sixteen known copies containing sections of this list. The oldest four sources used when discussing this list date from 2000BCE, 1817 BCE, 1712 BCE, 1250 BCE.


That is still few, and most of them are in dispute. Hamurabi is in dispute of his datings, as are a host of Greek figures.

quote:

Nice attempt to shift the goal posts. My comment was about evidence for proof of existence, not who was revered the most. Lots of kids love Santa, the Easter bunny, the tooth fairy, dorathy the dinosaur etc. This does not prove that they exist.


Santa has no proof of existence. Moses gave us hard copy laws which turn the world today. What did Santa give us? We should not look for hard proof of Moses - the text denies this possibility.

quote:
How many contemporary eyewitness accounts do you have for any of the actions of Moses?

3 Million Israelites and a mixed multitude of other peoples. This is described in the first scientific cencus, with sub-total of tribes, gender and age groups. Now if one wants to present a lie - they surely would not say millions were witness - would you?

OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message by continuing in this vein.
AdminPD

Edited by AdminPD, : Warning


This message is a reply to:
 Message 270 by Butterflytyrant, posted 11-14-2011 11:15 AM Butterflytyrant has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 273 by Butterflytyrant, posted 11-15-2011 12:26 AM IamJoseph has responded

    
Butterflytyrant
Member (Idle past 2585 days)
Posts: 415
From: Australia
Joined: 06-28-2011


Message 273 of 306 (640984)
11-15-2011 12:26 AM
Reply to: Message 272 by IamJoseph
11-14-2011 8:45 PM


Re: look at what the Atheist characters say
IamJoseph,

You are unwilling or unable to provide any sourced evidence other than the Old Testament.

Your views often contradict all known historical information and regularly defy logic and common sense.

Your interpretation of the Old Testament is most often contradictory to the interpretation of scholars including Jewish religious scholars.

Your views of Jewish history are most often contradictory to the views of scholars, historians, archaeologists etc including opposition to official historical information supplied by the government of Israel.

You dont seem to be able to tell the difference between conjecture, unverifiable assertions, random guessing and facts. You believe that if you say it, it becomes a fact. You believe that if you say it many times, not only is it a fact but you have also provided evidence.

Your problems with English comprehension lead you to answer questions with replies that seem to have little connection to what is asked.

You regularly 'shift the goalposts', refuse to answer or simply ignore direct questions, you refuse to address or simply ignore information that refutes your position, you claim no information exists that could refute your position in replies to posts that contain that exact information.

Your religious fundamentalism make it nearly impossible for you to engage in intellectually honest debate.

For these reasons I will no longer engage in debates with you unless you reply to one of my posts or directly refer to one of my posts.

I hope that ignoring you is more effective at highlighting the problems that exist in your posts than discussing the issues with you. It seems that debating with you gives the impression that what you are saying should be taken seriously.

I have leant a lot about Judaism and the Old Testament in my research so this has not been a total waste of my time.

Cheers,

BT

OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message by continuing in this vein.
AdminPD

Edited by AdminPD, : Warning


I could agree with you, but then we would both be wrong

Butterfly, AKA, mallethead - Dawn Bertot

"Superstitions and nonsense from the past should not prevent us from making progress. If we hold ourselves back, we admit that our fears are more powerful than our abilities." Hunters of Dune Herbert & Anderson


This message is a reply to:
 Message 272 by IamJoseph, posted 11-14-2011 8:45 PM IamJoseph has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 274 by IamJoseph, posted 11-15-2011 1:09 AM Butterflytyrant has not yet responded

    
IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 1832 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 274 of 306 (640986)
11-15-2011 1:09 AM
Reply to: Message 273 by Butterflytyrant
11-15-2011 12:26 AM


BITE THE BULLET!
I'm not religious, never mind fundamentalist! It seems I was correct not to accept your scholars' view of David being fable and myth: I saw loads of evidence, where your scholars saw none. Nothing whatsoever to do with religion or belief, only factual, logical pursuit of truth applies: You have also lost the debate of the Hebrew bible being the first alphabetical book; that the universe being finite was introduced in Genesis, and that Evolution is a bad rip off from the creation chapter in Genesis.

YOU SHALL NOT FOLLOW A CORRUPTED MULTITUDE.

OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message by continuing in this vein.
AdminPD

Edited by AdminPD, : Warning


This message is a reply to:
 Message 273 by Butterflytyrant, posted 11-15-2011 12:26 AM Butterflytyrant has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 275 by AdminPD, posted 11-15-2011 4:39 AM IamJoseph has not yet responded

    
AdminPD
Inactive Administrator


Message 275 of 306 (640993)
11-15-2011 4:39 AM
Reply to: Message 274 by IamJoseph
11-15-2011 1:09 AM


Topic Please
IamJoseph and Butterflytyrant,

The purple off topic warnings mean knock it off!

You two had your chance in the Great Debate. Don't drag it to other threads.

If either of you disregard my off topic warnings again in any theead, you will be suspended for a week.

All participants get back to the topic of the thread. There are only 25 posts left till closing.

As usual, participants are not to reply to this admin msg.

Thanks
AdminPD


This message is a reply to:
 Message 274 by IamJoseph, posted 11-15-2011 1:09 AM IamJoseph has not yet responded

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6187
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 276 of 306 (641017)
11-15-2011 11:08 AM
Reply to: Message 267 by IamJoseph
11-13-2011 7:55 PM


Re: LET THE TRUTH SET YOU FREE - OR EXPOSE A LIE.
Hi Joseph,

IamJoseph writes:

What ails thee o knight of arms, alone and palely loitering?

Nothing ails me.

You just can't understand English so I don't know if you can read it or not.

You said this in Message 259 was what Deut. 13:1 said:

quote:
Not to add to the commandments of the Torah, whether in the Written Law or in its interpretation received by tradition (Deut. 13:1)

Deuteronomy 13:1 says:

quote:
13:1 If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder,

In light of your quote and what the text actually says I can begin to understand your problem with what the text in Genesis chapter 6 and 7 is saying.

You don't have a clue as to what the text says.

That is the reason you tell me that וכל־ביתד means domestic animals.

You also define "EVERY" as some.
You also define "ALL" as some.
You also define "WHOLE HEAVENS" as part of the heavens.
You also define "ALL THE HIGH HILLS" as some of the high hills was covered with water.

I am beginning to get the picture that if the text does not say what you want it to say that you just change it to suit your worldview.

Now if you disagree give me your definitions of:

"EVERY"
"ALL"
"WHOLE HEAVENS"
"ALL THE HIGH HILLS"

Since the text concerning the life forms on Earth to be destroyed says:

quote:
Genesis 6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

That verse says man, beast, the creeping thing and fowls of the air. It leaves no one or no air breathing creature who would not be destroyed.

quote:
Genesis 6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.Genesis 6:17 And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.

6:18 But with thee will I establish my covenant; and thou shalt come into the ark, thou, and thy sons, and thy wife, and thy sons' wives with thee.

6:19 And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female.

6:20 Of fowls after their kind, and of cattle after their kind, of every creeping thing of the earth after his kind, two of every sort shall come unto thee, to keep them alive.


Verse 17 says God will bring a flood to destroy "ALL FLESH" that breathed the breath of life.

Verse 18 begins the exceptions to being destroyed listing first Noah and his sons and their wives.

Verse 19 includes two of every living thing of all flesh, male and female was to be kept alive in the ark.

Verse 20 includes two of every kind fowl, of every kind of cattle, and of every kind of creeping thing that would come to the ark, to be kept alive.

Now show me I am wrong about what you can understand and what you can't understand by detailing how your assertions of a local flood took place and Noah only had his domestic animals on the ark in light of what these verses say.

Noah was told to build an ark to save himself and family from the flood as well as two of every living creature on planet Earth, as God was going to destroy all flesh, air breathing creatures.

He was told how to build it.

quote:
6:14 Make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt thou make in the ark, and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch.

6:15 And this is the fashion which thou shalt make it of: The length of the ark shall be three hundred cubits, the breadth of it fifty cubits, and the height of it thirty cubits.

6:16 A window shalt thou make to the ark, and in a cubit shalt thou finish it above; and the door of the ark shalt thou set in the side thereof; with lower, second, and third stories shalt thou make it.


So Noah was to build an ark 300 x 50 x 30 cubits.

The shortest cubit is given as 17.5 inches and the longest cubit as 25.6 inches with Noah's cubit given as 20.3 inches.

I can't find where or why Noah's cubi is given as 20.3 instead of the Holy cubit which is 25.3 inches.

You can find a cubit caculator Here that you can select any size cubit you want too, but you can't find one smaller than 17.5.

Im Message 260 you said:

IamJoseph writes:

These measurements are not subject to confusion, as you have done in a number of posts thus far. The measurements of the house which contained the Arc, for example, are verifiable in the historical, specifc writings of Josephus and the temple scroll found in the dead sea scroll package. Example measurements of walls, pillars and porches of the Jerusalem temple given in cubits [roughly a foot; elbow to fingers]:

I ask before and I ask again, where do you get your definition of a cubit from?

In Message 264 I presented a partial list of creatures, although it was all I could come up with that was domestic animals you claim was in the ark. I asked you to expand the list if I had left out any.

So I ask again, what is incomplete with this list?

quote:
Lets examine what domestic life forms Noah would have.

7 oxen allowed
7 cows allowed.
7 bison allowed.
7 wild deer allowed. But you say no wild animals. Not allowed.
7 sheep allowed.
7 goats allowed.
7 Gazelle allowed.
7 Giraffe allowed.
7 chickens allowed.
7 doves allowed.
If the following was not wild they would be allowed.
7 ducks allowed.
7 geese allowed.
7 turkeys allowed.
2 Rahvins not allowed according to you as they would have been wild.
2 horses allowed.
2 asses allowed.
2 tame cats allowed.
2 tame dogs allowed.

That is all that I can come up with so go over the list and if I left out anything please present


Please present any creature I left out.

I will then tell you what size ark was need to house the critters for your flood journey of Noah's so called household.

Now if you care to debate the issues please present your argumentation and any supporting evidence you can come up with that supports your position.

Any blather that is not related to the subject at hand will not be answered.

If you care to continue in your blather start a thread in the free for all and carry on.

But in this thread please stick to the subject of Noah's flood as we are getting to the end and I have not learned anything from your blather so far.

If you have any argumentation and evidence present it now or conceed you have no idea what you have been talking about.

God Bless,

Edited by ICANT, : correct link


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 267 by IamJoseph, posted 11-13-2011 7:55 PM IamJoseph has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 277 by IamJoseph, posted 11-15-2011 6:59 PM ICANT has responded

    
IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 1832 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 277 of 306 (641040)
11-15-2011 6:59 PM
Reply to: Message 276 by ICANT
11-15-2011 11:08 AM


Re: LET THE TRUTH SET YOU FREE - OR EXPOSE A LIE.
You are covering the same ground obsessively, without factoring any responsa. I gave you 100% proof the Hebrew bible laws forbids adding and subtracting from those laws, with verse numbers, yet you say you don't know what I'm talking about! Acknowledge your error, then move on. I also explained this is the reason Christianity and Judaism became two seperate belief systems - IMHO the Jews were correct: it is proven when Christianity rejected Islam - for similar reasons. Bite the bullet if your pursuit is for the truth as opposed any belief.

Further, I also stated the clean and unclean animals are limited to Noah's household [the text], the reason no wild animals are listed: because they cannot be domestic animals! In all your posts you disregarded the verse which stipulates that only Noah and his family and only his household possessions, are applicable!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 276 by ICANT, posted 11-15-2011 11:08 AM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 278 by ICANT, posted 11-15-2011 10:39 PM IamJoseph has responded

    
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6187
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 278 of 306 (641049)
11-15-2011 10:39 PM
Reply to: Message 277 by IamJoseph
11-15-2011 6:59 PM


Re: LET THE TRUTH SET YOU FREE - OR EXPOSE A LIE.
Hi Joseph,
IamJoseph writes:

You are covering the same ground obsessively, without factoring any responsa. I gave you 100% proof the Hebrew bible laws forbids adding and subtracting from those laws,

I keep covering the same ground because you have not answered the questions, nor have you presented 100% proof of anything.

You quoted a verse of scripture that does not exist in the Bible.

When presented a direct quote of the verse you ignore it and repeat you have presented 100% evidence that the verse says what you say.

This turkey is done. If you want to discuss it start a thread.

IamJoseph writes:

Further, I also stated the clean and unclean animals are limited to Noah's household [the text],

But the law of Moses did not exist for 857 years after the flood.

The Law was given to the descendants of Isaac the son of Abraham and Sarah.

So why are we actually discussing clean and unclean animals?

If you check the verses in chapter 6 & 7 of Genesis you will find the only use of clean and not clean prior to the Law being given to Moses, who delivered it to the people.

quote:
6:19 And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female.

6:20 Of fowls after their kind, and of cattle after their kind, of every creeping thing of the earth after his kind, two of every sort shall come unto thee, to keep them alive.


There is no mention of clean or not clean critters in these verses in the chapter where instructions were given for the construction of the ark and the critters who were to be the passengers including the descriptions of the humans.

quote:
7:2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.
7:8 Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth,
8:20 And Noah builded an altar unto the LORD; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar.

Those are the only verses that say anything about clean critters and unclean or not clean critters in the Bible until you get to the book of Leviticus.

quote:
Leviticus 11:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses and to Aaron, saying unto them,

11:2 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, These are the beasts which ye shall eat among all the beasts that are on the earth.

11:3 Whatsoever parteth the hoof, and is cloven-footed, and cheweth the cud, among the beasts, that shall ye eat.

11:4 Nevertheless these shall ye not eat of them that chew the cud, or of them that divide the hoof: as the camel, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.

11:5 And the coney, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.

11:6 And the hare, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.

11:7 And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be cloven-footed, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you.

11:8 Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcass shall ye not touch; they are unclean to you.

11:9 These shall ye eat of all that are in the waters: whatsoever hath fins and scales in the waters, in the seas, and in the rivers, them shall ye eat.

11:10 And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you:

11:11 They shall be even an abomination unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcasses in abomination.

11:12 Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you.

11:13 And these are they which ye shall have in abomination among the fowls; they shall not be eaten, they are an abomination: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray,

11:14 And the vulture, and the kite after his kind;

11:15 Every raven after his kind;

11:16 And the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckoo, and the hawk after his kind,

11:17 And the little owl, and the cormorant, and the great owl,

11:18 And the swan, and the pelican, and the gier eagle,

11:19 And the stork, the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat.

11:20 All fowls that creep, going upon all four, shall be an abomination unto you.

11:21 Yet these may ye eat of every flying creeping thing that goeth upon all four, which have legs above their feet, to leap withal upon the earth;

11:22 Even these of them ye may eat; the locust after his kind, and the bald locust after his kind, and the beetle after his kind, and the grasshopper after his kind.

11:23 But all other flying creeping things, which have four feet, shall be an abomination unto you.

11:24 And for these ye shall be unclean: whosoever toucheth the carcass of them shall be unclean until the even.

11:25 And whosoever beareth ought of the carcass of them shall wash his clothes, and be unclean until the even.

11:26 The carcasses of every beast which divideth the hoof, and is not cloven-footed, nor cheweth the cud, are unclean unto you: every one that toucheth them shall be unclean.

11:27 And whatsoever goeth upon his paws, among all manner of beasts that go on all four, those are unclean unto you: whoso toucheth their carcass shall be unclean until the even.

11:28 And he that beareth the carcass of them shall wash his clothes, and be unclean until the even: they are unclean unto you.

11:29 These also shall be unclean unto you among the creeping things that creep upon the earth; the weasel, and the mouse, and the tortoise after his kind,

11:30 And the ferret, and the chameleon, and the lizard, and the snail, and the mole.

11:31 These are unclean to you among all that creep: whosoever doth touch them, when they be dead, shall be unclean until the even.

11:32 And upon whatsoever any of them, when they are dead, doth fall, it shall be unclean; whether it be any vessel of wood, or raiment, or skin, or sack, whatsoever vessel it be, wherein any work is done, it must be put into water, and it shall be unclean until the even; so it shall be cleansed.

11:33 And every earthen vessel, whereinto any of them falleth, whatsoever is in it shall be unclean; and ye shall break it.

11:34 Of all meat which may be eaten, that on which such water cometh shall be unclean: and all drink that may be drunk in every such vessel shall be unclean.

11:35 And every thing whereupon any part of their carcass falleth shall be unclean; whether it be oven, or ranges for pots, they shall be broken down: for they are unclean and shall be unclean unto you.

11:36 Nevertheless a fountain or pit, wherein there is plenty of water, shall be clean: but that which toucheth their carcass shall be unclean.

11:37 And if any part of their carcass fall upon any sowing seed which is to be sown, it shall be clean.

11:38 But if any water be put upon the seed, and any part of their carcass fall thereon, it shall be unclean unto you.

11:39 And if any beast, of which ye may eat, die; he that toucheth the carcass thereof shall be unclean until the even.

11:40 And he that eateth of the carcass of it shall wash his clothes, and be unclean until the even: he also that beareth the carcass of it shall wash his clothes, and be unclean until the even.

11:41 And every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth shall be an abomination; it shall not be eaten.

11:42 Whatsoever goeth upon the belly, and whatsoever goeth upon all four, or whatsoever hath more feet among all creeping things that creep upon the earth, them ye shall not eat; for they are an abomination.

11:43 Ye shall not make yourselves abominable with any creeping thing that creepeth, neither shall ye make yourselves unclean with them, that ye should be defiled thereby.

11:44 For I am the LORD your God: ye shall therefore sanctify yourselves, and ye shall be holy; for I am holy: neither shall ye defile yourselves with any manner of creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

11:45 For I am the LORD that bringeth you up out of the land of Egypt, to be your God: ye shall therefore be holy, for I am holy.

11:46 This is the law of the beasts, and of the fowl, and of every living creature that moveth in the waters, and of every creature that creepeth upon the earth:

11:47 To make a difference between the unclean and the clean, and between the beast that may be eaten and the beast that may not be eaten.


Verse 46 makes a statement concerning when the Law of the beasts, fowl and every living creature that moveth in the waters, and every creature that creepeth upon the earth became effective.

In other words this is when the law of clean and unclean beasts was instituted not before.

The flood took place around 2304 BC.
The exodus took place around 1447 BC.
That is 857 years after the flood took place.

Why would Moses mention clean and not clean animals in Genesis chapter 7 & 8 when he knew there was no Law concerning the animals that were to be on the ark?

It is ludicrous to think Moses wrote the texts that defines clean and not clean when it did not exist.

The only way those things were mentioned was by some misguided copyist that knew they had to be clean or unclean animals being talked about.

I just wonder how much more was added to the text in chapter 7, to make it a Israelite story instead of a Gentile story which it was as the nation of Israel did not exist at the time of Noah.

Yea I know you don't believe something like that could happen.

But they were just as zealous as you are and just as misguided.

According to the text in Genesis chapter 6 there was male and female of every critter that had the breath of life in them, on the ark.
Along with 8 humans, 4 male and 4 female.

I see you still can't understand English or answer questions.

You don't have a clue as to what the text says.

That is the reason you tell me that וכל־ביתד means domestic animals.

You also define "EVERY" as some.
You also define "ALL" as some.
You also define "WHOLE HEAVENS" as part of the heavens.
You also define "ALL THE HIGH HILLS" as some of the high hills was covered with water.

I am beginning to get the picture that if the text does not say what you want it to say that you just change it to suit your worldview.

Now if you disagree give me your definitions of:

"EVERY"
"ALL"
"WHOLE HEAVENS"
"ALL THE HIGH HILLS"

If you don't give me your definitions I am going to assume that I got them right.

Since you did not take the time to address the following am I to assume that you agree with the following list?

7 oxen allowed
7 cows allowed.
7 bison allowed.
7 wild deer allowed. But you say no wild animals. Not allowed.
7 sheep allowed.
7 goats allowed.
7 Gazelle allowed.
7 Giraffe allowed.
7 chickens allowed.
7 doves allowed.
If the following was not wild they would be allowed.
7 ducks allowed.
7 geese allowed.
7 turkeys allowed.
2 Rahvins not allowed according to you as they would have been wild.
2 horses allowed.
2 asses allowed.
2 tame cats allowed.
2 tame dogs allowed.

If you disagree with the above list please add any animals you think would have been in Noah's household.

I would really like to know how big your ark would have to be to be able to house Noah, his sons, and all their wives plus the critters.

I can't do that without a complete list.

Can you address the topic?

OR

Have you decided to abandon the topic all together?

You have about half of 21 posts left to support all your assertions you have made in this thread about the flood story.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 277 by IamJoseph, posted 11-15-2011 6:59 PM IamJoseph has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 279 by IamJoseph, posted 11-16-2011 12:42 AM ICANT has responded

    
IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 1832 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 279 of 306 (641052)
11-16-2011 12:42 AM
Reply to: Message 278 by ICANT
11-15-2011 10:39 PM


Re: LET THE TRUTH SET YOU FREE - OR EXPOSE A LIE.
quote:
You quoted a verse of scripture that does not exist in the Bible.

Which one is that?

quote:

When presented a direct quote of the verse you ignore it and repeat you have presented 100% evidence that the verse says what you say.

This referred to the law not to add or subtract. I stand by that.

quote:

Further, I also stated the clean and unclean animals are limited to Noah's household [the text],

But the law of Moses did not exist for 857 years after the flood.


Irrelevent. You still did not factor in a pivotal verse in the Noah story, relating only to Noah's household! Everything you say MUST align with it.

quote:

The Law was given to the descendants of Isaac the son of Abraham and Sarah.

So why are we actually discussing clean and unclean animals?


True the laws were given later, but this does not effect the standing of the law; only the people were yet not onuserable for it. Clean and unclean are words in the Noah story, relating to Noah's household; they are directed at consumerable and non-consumerable animals in Noah's household. You are using this as referring to all the animals of the earth, in contradiction of Noah's household animals and the size of the arc given to Noah.

quote:

Why would Moses mention clean and not clean animals in Genesis chapter 7 & 8 when he knew there was no Law concerning the animals that were to be on the ark?

It is ludicrous to think Moses wrote the texts that defines clean and not clean when it did not exist.

The only way those things were mentioned was by some misguided copyist that knew they had to be clean or unclean animals being talked about.

I just wonder how much more was added to the text in chapter 7, to make it a Israelite story instead of a Gentile story which it was as the nation of Israel did not exist at the time of Noah.

Yea I know you don't believe something like that could happen.

But they were just as zealous as you are and just as misguided.


Totally short sighted. The law was the law, even in Noah's time. But it was not yet given. Jacob married two sisters, which is forbidden by the law. It means the law was the law, but Jacob was not guilty of it at that time. Moses, writing retrospectively, knew of this law, using its terminology to describe clean and unclean animals - in Noah's household only. It means also, if Christians eat pig, it is against a law, but that Christians are not onuserable for it - they were not given this law directly; this law is for the protection of the pig, as opposed protection of humans, as with the law not to mix meat and milk being for the protection of the bird - it can identify its mother's milk but humans cannot perform this feat.

quote:

I see you still can't understand English or answer questions.

You don't have a clue as to what the text says.

That is the reason you tell me that וכלביתד means domestic animals.


Yes, I attach it to Noah's household, the arc size - and good grammar [the text]

quote:

You also define "EVERY" as some.


Every is aligned with Noah's household, not all the earth, not all the heavens and the universe. [the text]

quote:

You also define "ALL" as some.

All in Noah's household.

quote:

You also define "WHOLE HEAVENS" as part of the heavens.

The whole heavens "of Noah's region". As in ALL THE EARTH STOOD STILL.

quote:

You also define "ALL THE HIGH HILLS" as some of the high hills was covered with water.

My reading is consistant, I do not ignor pivotal verses, instead I align it with everything else in the text. You do the reverse, never even mentioning it anywhere.

quote:

I am beginning to get the picture that if the text does not say what you want it to say that you just change it to suit your worldview.

Now if you disagree give me your definitions of:

"EVERY"
"ALL"
"WHOLE HEAVENS"
"ALL THE HIGH HILLS"

If you don't give me your definitions I am going to assume that I got them right.


I have responded to those items numerously with no possibility of confusion.

quote:

Since you did not take the time to address the following am I to assume that you agree with the following list?

7 oxen allowed
7 cows allowed.
7 bison allowed.
7 wild deer allowed. But you say no wild animals. Not allowed.
7 sheep allowed.
7 goats allowed.
7 Gazelle allowed.
7 Giraffe allowed.
7 chickens allowed.
7 doves allowed.
If the following was not wild they would be allowed.
7 ducks allowed.
7 geese allowed.
7 turkeys allowed.
2 Rahvins not allowed according to you as they would have been wild.
2 horses allowed.
2 asses allowed.
2 tame cats allowed.
2 tame dogs allowed.

If you disagree with the above list please add any animals you think would have been in Noah's household.


There is no reason to disagree Noah would have possessed all or those kinds of animals. Your list includes both clean and unclean animals. Notably, they contain no wild animals like snakes and bears, aligning only with my reading of the text.

quote:

I would really like to know how big your ark would have to be to be able to house Noah, his sons, and all their wives plus the critters.

The arc size is well catered to Noah's household possessions only, and agrees only with my reading of the text.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 278 by ICANT, posted 11-15-2011 10:39 PM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 281 by ICANT, posted 11-16-2011 12:42 PM IamJoseph has responded

    
IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 1832 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 280 of 306 (641053)
11-16-2011 12:54 AM


There is a Creation museum which shows dinosaurs living side by side with humans. This understanding is unrelated to the text in Genesis and a totally wrong, embarrassing understanding of the Hebrew bible.

As well, Christians read Genesis as the earth's age being 6000 years old, when this only applies to a life form different from and possessing a unique trait: namely a speech endowed attribute; this is vindicated today - we have no NAME older than 6000; not even any history per se. In fact, Genesis is the first document which said the earth is billions of years old, 1000's of years before science affirmed it. One only has to include the pre-life actions listed in Genesis, namely the seperation actions of light and darkness, day and night, water and land; these account for billions and millions of years, and is listed well before any life emerged. The Christian view is held in sincerity, but are in error. The text is not in error, but it requires intelligent deliberation.

OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message by continuing in this vein.
AdminPD

Edited by IamJoseph, : No reason given.

Edited by AdminPD, : Warning


    
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6187
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 281 of 306 (641093)
11-16-2011 12:42 PM
Reply to: Message 279 by IamJoseph
11-16-2011 12:42 AM


Re: LET THE TRUTH SET YOU FREE - OR EXPOSE A LIE.
Hi Joseph,

It's refreshing to see that you can actually respond to a post with a little substance.

IamJoseph writes:

Which one is that?

The one you quoted giving the book, chapter, and verse as saying:

quote:
Not to add to the commandments of the Torah, whether in the Written Law or in its interpretation received by tradition (Deut. 13:1)

The actual text says:

quote:
13:1 If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder,

Now either you can't read and understand English if you can't tell the difference in what the text says from what you assert it says or you are being deliberately dishonest with your assertions.

IamJoseph writes:

This referred to the law not to add or subtract. I stand by that.

But what you said Deut. 13:1 says does not exist in Deut. 13:1.

IamJoseph writes:

Irrelevent. You still did not factor in a pivotal verse in the Noah story, relating only to Noah's household! Everything you say MUST align with it.

Why must everything align with your misinterpertation of Genesis 7:1?

Genesis 7:1 has to align with what is found in Genesis chapter 6.

In Message 248 I gave you the following which you did not coment on. I don't know if I was talking over your head and you did not understand what was said or you were being deliberately deceptive.

quote:
6:19 And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female.

This verse tells Noah what animals are to be on the ark.

ומכל־החי translation, and from all the life
מכל־בשר from all flesh
שנים two
מכל from all
תביא will come
אל־התבה־־להחית to the vessel to exist
אתד at you
זכר male
ונקבה and female
יהיו they exist

Reading:
And from all the life from all flesh two from all will come to the vessel to exist at you male and female they exist.

Please explain from that verse what creature on planet Earth would not come to the vessel to be able to exist?

That is the reason I asked you for your definition's of 'all', and 'every'.

I find no life form left out in either word.

Now somehow you have convinced yourself that וכל־ביתד means domestic animals.

וכל The first letter is and the second two letters is all.
־ puts the second noun in construct making it, of
ביתד your house or your family.

It has nothing to do with any animals that Noah might own.
It has nothing to do with the region in which Noah might live.

IamJoseph writes:

True the laws were given later, but this does not effect the standing of the law; only the people were yet not onuserable for it.

If the laws were given 857 years later they were not in effect and there was no such thing as a clean or not clean critter. They were just critters.

And yes no one is answerable to a law that does not exist.

So why were the critters answerable for a law that did not exist?

IamJoseph writes:

Clean and unclean are words in the Noah story,

Yes I can read I know they are there. My question is why are they there?

The law was not in effect so there would be no clean or unclean critters. All would have been considered the same.

The only reason they could be there is because someone later decided they should be there.

Moses did not put them there or he would have also used them in chapter 6 when he said:

quote:
6:19 And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female.

6:20 Of fowls after their kind, and of cattle after their kind, of every creeping thing of the earth after his kind, two of every sort shall come unto thee, to keep them alive.


These are the critters that were supposed to come to the ark to be preserved to repopulate the Earth after the flood.

There is no mention of critters of Noah's household or clean or unclean critters, just critters male and female of "ALL" life forms.

IamJoseph writes:

they are directed at consumerable and non-consumerable animals in Noah's household.

But for these Gentiles who were never under the law which did not exist at that time there was no clean or unclean critters.

IamJoseph writes:

You are using this as referring to all the animals of the earth, in contradiction of Noah's household animals and the size of the arc given to Noah.

I am not the only one refering to all the animals of the earth.

The text plainly says:

quote:
6:19 And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female.

6:20 Of fowls after their kind, and of cattle after their kind, of every creeping thing of the earth after his kind, two of every sort shall come unto thee, to keep them alive.


EVERY LIVING THING OF
ALL FLESH
OF EVERY SORT
OF FOWLS AFTER THEIR KIND
OF CATTLE AFTER THEIR KIND
OF EVERY CREEPING THING OF THE EARTH AFTER HIS KIND

TWO OF EVERY SORT SHALL COME UNTO THEE.

So the text says ALL and EVERY.

So name one critter that was left out of those two verses.

IamJoseph writes:

Totally short sighted. The law was the law, even in Noah's time.

The law did not exist in Noah's time.

The law came 857 years after the flood.

IamJoseph writes:

Yes, I attach it to Noah's household,

YesI know you attach it to Noah's household and ignore anything that goes against what you believe.

IamJoseph writes:

Every is aligned with Noah's household, not all the earth, not all the heavens and the universe. [the text]

So your definition of 'EVERY' is 'SOME'.

So why didn't Moses use אחד which is one or some rather than כל which means all, whole, every, and totally everything.

There is no room in the word Moses used to mean anything less that totality every living breathing critter on the entire dry land perishing as the total dry land was covered with the highest hill being covered with 15 cubits of water.

Now you are welcome to your belief just remember the word is what is correct whether you are correct or not.

IamJoseph writes:

My reading is consistant, I do not ignor pivotal verses,

You only ignore those that disagree with your worldview.

IamJoseph writes:

There is no reason to disagree Noah would have possessed all or those kinds of animals. Your list includes both clean and unclean animals. Notably, they contain no wild animals like snakes and bears, aligning only with my reading of the text.

I only named animals that would be in what you call Noah's household as they would all have to be domestic animals.

I also used the number of clean animals that the law that did not exist for 857 years required.

I was simply asking you for any additional animals you thought might be in the ark.

IamJoseph writes:

The arc size is well catered to Noah's household possessions only, and agrees only with my reading of the text.

I don't know how you can make such a statement or assertion.

I have ask you several time for the length of a cubit and the source you got that information from and you present nothing.

So the cubit is whatever you want it to be therefore the ark is as large or as small as you want it to be.

The smallest known cubit is 17.5 inches not the foot you assert.

Using the animals listed above and the 8 humans your ark would have to be 100 cubit's x 16.6 cubits by 14.5 cubits using the 17.5 cubit as the unit of measure.

Your ark would consist of 1 floor and would contain 1 1/2 times the volume required for the animals and humans listed above.

So why was Noah told to build an ark that was 300 cubits x 50 cubits x 30 cubits with 3 floors below the main deck?

If I use feet for cubits I still get 13 times the cubit feet required to house the 8 humans and the animals listed above.

Why would Noah be told to build such a huge ark for so few animals and humans?

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 279 by IamJoseph, posted 11-16-2011 12:42 AM IamJoseph has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 282 by IamJoseph, posted 11-18-2011 1:36 AM ICANT has acknowledged this reply

    
IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 1832 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 282 of 306 (641216)
11-18-2011 1:36 AM
Reply to: Message 281 by ICANT
11-16-2011 12:42 PM


Re: LET THE TRUTH SET YOU FREE - OR EXPOSE A LIE.
quote:

IamJoseph writes:
Which one is that?

The one you quoted giving the book, chapter, and verse as saying:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Not to add to the commandments of the Torah, whether in the Written Law or in its interpretation received by tradition (Deut. 13:1)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The actual text says:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
13:1 If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder,
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now either you can't read and understand English if you can't tell the difference in what the text says from what you assert it says or you are being deliberately dishonest with your assertions.


Are you seriously confused of such a pivotal law and discussing this bible? FYI, I claimed [or should have] Duet 13/1:

quote:
Deuteronomy Chapter 13
1 All this word which I command you, that shall ye observe to do; thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

Now you see why Christianity and Judaism could not/did not blend in their core doctrines, and that the Jews were right of it. Only that which cannot be added to or subtracted from is the real mcoy. Thus did Christianity foster Islam to emulate by the same premise. Result: Kaos - for all cannot right, obviously, and this does not change by the 'belief' factor.

And these are the souls which were called into the arc; note it says 'thou shall take' - which can only apply to Noah taking his animals; and 'all thy house' - namely all Noah's possessions of clean & unclean animals:

quote:
Genesis Chapter 7
1 And the LORD said unto Noah: 'Come thou and all thy house into the ark; 2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee seven and seven, each with his mate; and of the beasts that are not clean two [and two], each with his mate; 3 of the fowl also of the air, seven and seven, male and female; to keep seed alive upon the face of all the earth.

These are the people and animals which emerged from the arc when the flood ceased. Note it says 'Bring forth with thee' [Noah's animals with Noah]; 'every living thing that is with thee' [animals which are with thee - Noah's animals]; 'of all flesh' - here you see clearly what 'all flesh' means: 'all flesh that is with thee [in the arc with Noah]; not all the flesh of the earth.

Note also it says: '18 And Noah went forth, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him; [refers to the people who went in]; 19 'every beast, every creeping thing, and every fowl, whatsoever moveth upon the earth' - namely all the creeping things, whatsoever moved - not all the life that moved on the earth!

quote:
16 'Go forth from the ark, thou, and thy wife, and thy sons, and thy sons' wives with thee. 17 Bring forth with thee every living thing that is with thee of all flesh, both fowl, and cattle, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth; that they may swarm in the earth, and be fruitful, and multiply upon the earth.' 18 And Noah went forth, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him; 19 every beast, every creeping thing, and every fowl, whatsoever moveth upon the earth, after their families; went forth out of the ark. 20 And Noah builded an altar unto the LORD; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt-offerings on the altar.

QED.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 281 by ICANT, posted 11-16-2011 12:42 PM ICANT has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 283 by Panda, posted 11-18-2011 6:06 AM IamJoseph has responded
 Message 287 by Butterflytyrant, posted 11-18-2011 8:37 AM IamJoseph has responded

    
Panda
Member (Idle past 1876 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 283 of 306 (641241)
11-18-2011 6:06 AM
Reply to: Message 282 by IamJoseph
11-18-2011 1:36 AM


Re: LET THE TRUTH SET YOU FREE - OR EXPOSE A LIE.
IamJ writes:

Deuteronomy Chapter 13
1 All this word which I command you, that shall ye observe to do; thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

That is not Deuteronomy 13:1.
Try again.

If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue

This message is a reply to:
 Message 282 by IamJoseph, posted 11-18-2011 1:36 AM IamJoseph has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 284 by IamJoseph, posted 11-18-2011 6:56 AM Panda has not yet responded

  
IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 1832 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 284 of 306 (641242)
11-18-2011 6:56 AM
Reply to: Message 283 by Panda
11-18-2011 6:06 AM


Re: LET THE TRUTH SET YOU FREE - OR EXPOSE A LIE.
quote:

Deuteronomy Chapter 13
1 All this word which I command you, that shall ye observe to do; thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

That is not Deuteronomy 13:1.
Try again.


Trying again:

quote:
Deuteronomy Chapter 13
1 All this word which I command you, that shall ye observe to do; thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it


This message is a reply to:
 Message 283 by Panda, posted 11-18-2011 6:06 AM Panda has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 285 by Admin, posted 11-18-2011 7:22 AM IamJoseph has responded

    
Admin
Director
Posts: 12600
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
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Message 285 of 306 (641245)
11-18-2011 7:22 AM
Reply to: Message 284 by IamJoseph
11-18-2011 6:56 AM


Re: LET THE TRUTH SET YOU FREE - OR EXPOSE A LIE.
Hi IamJoseph,

If you're going to use the Masoretic text, where the last verse of chapter 12 is the first of chapter 13, you might want to mention it.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 284 by IamJoseph, posted 11-18-2011 6:56 AM IamJoseph has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 286 by IamJoseph, posted 11-18-2011 7:25 AM Admin has acknowledged this reply

    
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