Hyperbole in the Bible

Message 61 of 124 (640474) 11-10-2011 2:01 AM

Reply to: Message 59 by purpledawn 11-09-2011 4:19 PM

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Actually I don't feel that anyone has. The issue with Noah's age, which I yielded on, is an odd situation due to possibly being a later addition.

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That's odd. It was the many greater ages in Genesis 5 - none of which shows the signs of simple hyperbole - that convinced you. That IS context. (And I would note that the "late addition" criterion is also not part of "comparing the statement against reality" - and doesn't seem to make much sense either).

Do you also feel that all the ages of Genesis 5 are late additions ? What stops you from viewing them as hyperbole ? The statements, compared to reality, appear to be extremely exaggerated.

Edited by PaulK, : No reason given.

Edited by PaulK, : No reason given.

Message 62 of 124 (640479) 11-10-2011 5:32 AM

Reply to: Message 60 by Jon 11-09-2011 11:05 PM

Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

Message 63 of 124 (640480) 11-10-2011 6:02 AM

Reply to: Message 61 by PaulK 11-10-2011 2:01 AM

My explanations for yielding are in Message 22 and Message 41. Neither said anything about Genesis 5. The ages are exaggerated when compared to reality. The exaggerated age doesn't seem to be written to stimulate a visual image in our mind's eye. The agees were probably more about filling a gap.

Yes, per Friedman, Genesis 5 was added by the Redactor.

Edited by purpledawn, : No reason given.

Message 64 of 124 (640481) 11-10-2011 6:48 AM

Reply to: Message 53 by Panda 11-08-2011 10:51 AM

All hills, whole heaven. It was a very bad flood.

Message 65 of 124 (640487) 11-10-2011 7:47 AM

Reply to: Message 48 by NoNukes 11-06-2011 7:10 PM

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Is this really hyperbole? I'd suggest not. Certainly a literary device is in use, but nobody is really claiming that any animals are being eaten or swallowed. Instead the comparison between gnat and camel is supposed to indicate how badly the Pharisees and teachers of the law had missed the mark by concentrating on relative minutia. I'd suggest that we are looking at a metaphor rather than hyperbole.

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You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel. Matthew 23:24

The camel and gnat are not being compared to each other. Straining out gnats or their larvae from one's drinking water was common. The camel is an exaggeration of what can be swallowed, let alone be found in one's water. Humor of the day.

Message 66 of 124 (640488) 11-10-2011 7:57 AM

Reply to: Message 63 by purpledawn 11-10-2011 6:02 AM

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Since I've conceded on Noah's age, I am baffled as to why it is still an issue and we aren't moving forward.

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We're aren't arguing about whether Noah's age is hyperbole - we are using it as an example of how to identify hyperbole. In large part BECAUSE you agree that it isn't hyperbole, but also because you NOW reject my reasons for saying so but don't seem able to offer any valid alternatives.

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My explanations for yielding are in Message 22 and Message 41. Neither said anything about Genesis 5.

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That is either untrue or intentionally misleading. You implicitly refer to the ages in Genesis 5 In message 22.

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The ages are exaggerated when compared to reality.

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In other words, by your "comparison to reality" criterion you should consider them to be hyperbole.

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The exaggerated age doesn't seem to be written to stimulate a visual image in our mind's eye. The ages were probably more about filling a gap.

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The "filling a gap" explanation seems pretty weak (being short of evidence and reasoning).
But note, that this reasoning is NOT about either a comparison to reality or about being a late addition. Doesn't the fact that your stated criteria need to be augmented to deal with this case suggest that you need to rethink ? Doesn't the fact that you keep referring to the ages in Genesis 5 suggest that they ARE relevant to Noah's age in the Flood story?

And you still leave important points unaddressed. Do you really take the position that acts attributed to God should be limited to what is naturalistically possible ? How do you feel about the creation of the rainbow at the end of the Flood story ? Hyperbole ? Literal fact ? Or Myth ?

Message 67 of 124 (640489) 11-10-2011 7:59 AM

Reply to: Message 64 by purpledawn 11-10-2011 6:48 AM

So, how do we decide between your claim of hyperbole and other people's claim of accuracy?
What are you using to decide the Genesis quote is hyperbole, when others simply see a statement of fact?

Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

Message 68 of 124 (640494) 11-10-2011 9:19 AM

Reply to: Message 66 by PaulK 11-10-2011 7:57 AM

As for the rainbow question, if you have a verse you feel I would consider to be hyperbole, please provide the verse.

Message 69 of 124 (640495) 11-10-2011 9:37 AM

Reply to: Message 67 by Panda 11-10-2011 7:59 AM

Since the flood didn't cover the planet, there were plenty of places for people to go. Notice the Nephilum were still around after the flood. Genesis 6:4.

Message 71 of 124 (640512) 11-10-2011 11:11 AM

Reply to: Message 69 by purpledawn 11-10-2011 9:37 AM

I'd agree that there is some hyperbole associated with 6:4, but I don't know how you tell what is literal and what is not. Were the Nephilum really demigods? Were the later tales of giant people actually related to these same folk? Or were these guys just a bunch of well fed, fit, fierce, street-fighting men that nobody was really inclined to take on.

If they weren't really weren't some kind of pre-flood superfolk, then they aren't much evidence at all about whether the flood was global.

Message 72 of 124 (640523) 11-10-2011 11:25 AM

Reply to: Message 70 by Panda 11-10-2011 10:27 AM

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So, how do we decide between your claim of hyperbole and other people's claim of accuracy?
What are you using to decide the Genesis quote is hyperbole, when others simply see a statement of fact?

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If you want to argue the position that the verse is fact, then make your argument. I'm not going to debate against a position not presented by a participant.

Message 73 of 124 (640531) 11-10-2011 11:47 AM

Reply to: Message 62 by Panda 11-10-2011 5:32 AM

When I see hyperbole, or any other figurative language, I'll know it.

There is no formula.

Jon

Message 74 of 124 (640541) 11-10-2011 12:30 PM

Reply to: Message 72 by purpledawn 11-10-2011 11:25 AM

Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

Message 75 of 124 (640542) 11-10-2011 12:31 PM

Reply to: Message 73 by Jon 11-10-2011 11:47 AM

And do you think that "I'll just know" is a 100% reliable method of identifying hyperbole?

Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

Edited by Panda, : No reason given.