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Author Topic:   Time and Beginning to Exist
Member (Idle past 2521 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004

Message 260 of 289 (681918)
11-28-2012 3:29 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by PaulK
11-22-2011 10:21 AM

To save the argument then, we need a rigorous definition of "beginning to exist", we need to show that it is in fact true that everything that meets this definition has a cause - taking care to deal with the extreme cases - and we need to accept this definition when building on the argument.

Even if our premise was right, everything exists only because it has been observed to exist which collapsed the Wave Function that started the whole process of Cause and Effect.

This scientifically based idea futhermore requires that an initial observer, one outside of the Universe, was required to have observe the first split seconds of the Big Bang which collapsed the Wave Function of the Quantum particles that transmuted into matter.

1) The key concept of the theory, which forms a central part of the Copenhagen Interpretation, is known as the "collapse of the wave function".

2) The theory seeks to explain how an entity such as a photon, atom, or an electron, could "travel as a wave but arrive as a particle."

3) According to the interpretation, what is passing through the split experiment is not a material wave at all, but is a 'probability wave'. ....That wave merely contains the "probability" for what COULD be real.

4) Once the thing is observed, the wave function collapses and the photon, atom, and electron, or the whole world becomes a reality

5) Nothing is real until it has been observed!

6) We really are saying that in the 'real' world - even outside of the laboratory - until a thing has been observed it doesn't exist. ....But, by observing, all things materialize

7) This implies that there MUST actually be something 'outside' the universe, (God?), to look at the universe as a whole and collapse its overall wave function.....
Then, the Universe materialized and continues to so do.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by PaulK, posted 11-22-2011 10:21 AM PaulK has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 262 by New Cat's Eye, posted 11-28-2012 4:45 PM kofh2u has responded

Member (Idle past 2521 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004

Message 261 of 289 (681931)
11-28-2012 4:43 PM
Reply to: Message 259 by Stile
11-28-2012 12:39 PM

Re: Link to another Time and Beginning to Exist discussion

leads directly to the discussion instead of just tangentially.

we can discuss stuf tangentially now?

tyhis is the third post that says the same thing, but the moderators kept telling me that my posts are too disracting from what the moderaters were discussing on the other threads.

I got suspended for some reason.

I think I had better keep on topic, like the post aboce, which says things only exist when we observe them.

Once something has been observed, the Wave Funtion collapses and then in the material world, Cause and Effect follows.
But this implies that God was the first Observer.
Thereafter, Cause and Effect in the material universe followed.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 259 by Stile, posted 11-28-2012 12:39 PM Stile has acknowledged this reply

Member (Idle past 2521 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004

Message 263 of 289 (681951)
11-28-2012 8:09 PM
Reply to: Message 262 by New Cat's Eye
11-28-2012 4:45 PM

Nonsense. That's just taking a misunderstanding of QM and running with it.

Bolwing balls do not behave like particles. They exist at a point even when nobody is observing them. Only really small things behave like probability waves that collapse upon observation


Check out this video which uses electrons and atoms in the double slit experiments.

The spirit world of Quantum Physics

Also, the bowling balls only exist because the initial quantum particles during that first 1X10^143 sec of the Big Bang was seen by that Observer who we therefore call the Creator.

Once all matter appeared with the quantum particle wave collapse, bowling balls were merely Cause and Effect between natural phenomenon.

Edited by kofh2u, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 262 by New Cat's Eye, posted 11-28-2012 4:45 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 264 by New Cat's Eye, posted 11-29-2012 9:58 AM kofh2u has not yet responded

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