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Author Topic:   Time and Beginning to Exist
Posts: 14677
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1

Message 288 of 289 (882385)
09-20-2020 9:17 AM
Reply to: Message 287 by Son Goku
09-02-2020 12:52 PM

Speculation within the limits of a science mind
I've got a couple of questions for you...but first I wanted to introduce everyone on the Forum to one of the podcasts that I listen to.

Ask Science Mike

He is not a Biblical Creationist, but he is/was a strong Christian. He is rather liberal, and he is articulate enough that I am starting to enjoy listening to him.

Now for my questions:

You are a quantum physics guy and you likely value science and evidence before you would consider belief. Do you agree with Tangle, who claims that religion is on its way out and that rational people will soon realize that scientific thought (or philosophical maths) is basically the best way to learn more about our overall purpose, destiny, and discovery of the universe(multiverse?) in which we reside...on a dust speck suspended in a sunbeam?

Ive been trying to argue with these guys here at EvC forever about my beliefs and why I believe the way I do and, thankfully, they never agree with or encourage me to continue on my present path.

Do you agree with their basic point that religion and the stories surrounding it are entirely made up or do you allow for the slim possibility that there is something unexplaineed beyond our current understanding?

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 287 by Son Goku, posted 09-02-2020 12:52 PM Son Goku has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 289 by Son Goku, posted 09-20-2020 9:46 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

Son Goku
Posts: 1164
From: Ireland
Joined: 07-16-2005
Member Rating: 7.9

Message 289 of 289 (882389)
09-20-2020 9:46 AM
Reply to: Message 288 by Phat
09-20-2020 9:17 AM

Re: Speculation within the limits of a science mind
Difficult questions! I don't think I'll provide very satisfactory answers. I'll stay with the quantum physics side.

As for the sociological question of whether religion will last. I simply don't know. In response to quantum theory Bohr remained a committed atheist, Heisenberg became more deeply Catholic, Pauli delved into Jungian idealism and metaphysics and Schrodinger started to believe in Vedic philosophical views.
So I don't really know if physics say will definitely lead people away from religious views.

I think it's fairly clear from quantum theory that there's something beyond the scientific/physical, and you'll see this discussed fairly soberly in works by Bernard d'Espagnat or Jeffrey Bub for example. Bub has a nice phrase that quantum theory is clearly "non-representational", i.e. it doesn't discuss what the world is actually like. To paraphrase Bohr it's about what you can "say and do" not about what "is".

However it seems, as pointed out by Oppenheimer a few times, that quantum theory simply tells you what the metaphysics is not with little guidance as to what it is. So hard to know where to go from there. d'Espagnat's books sketch out a few options, but once you accept that you have no solid grasp on metahpysics accepting any of them is just belief as such.

Some say (e.g. Jeffrey Bub) that a far reaching agnosticism is called for. I don't just mean about God vs no God, but about metaphysics in general. Hard to know.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 288 by Phat, posted 09-20-2020 9:17 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

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